Dragondog

19 Feb 2019, 03:17

Putting aside the legal issues, we wouldn't be able to just make it on random servers; to make it actually work halfway decently, we'd have to take college courses, get an actual job in the business, and actually make, animate, program, and debug the game. And to make one this extensive would take a lot of time, effort, and money.

Not saying we should give up, but we need to fully recognize what this is going to take to achieve

hictooth

19 Feb 2019, 12:38

If only I knew someone why knew stuff about games development...

hictooth

19 Feb 2019, 15:11

(I actually do, I just sent him a screenshot of that post )

Not so he can come and suddenly make the game, but more so he can tell us how hard it would actually be (as I suspect quite hard)

BooksAreLikeDragons

04 Jan 2019, 09:15

Or perhaps the story could be set chronologically, where you play the plots of the films? Although I don't really like that idea.

BooksAreLikeDragons

05 Jan 2019, 08:19

tons more things to do and places to go. Sort of like Animal Crossing and Breath of the Wild, where there's never actually a true ending to the game - there's always something else to accomplish.

BooksAreLikeDragons

05 Jan 2019, 08:19

...except with better graphics (maybe someone could experiment with Unreal Engine?)

Dragonrider's Fury

09 Jan 2019, 20:41

One thing that I feel this game needs, is to use the official, or should I say real, models of Berk, Dragon's Edge, Outcast Island, Berserker Island, the Ice Nest... You get the idea. SoD is pretty decent as far as it goes, but there's a lot missing from, well, everywhere. For instance, Dragon's Edge. In SoD, it's pretty much just a mountain with a path going around it, and various buildings scattered about to make up the actual outpost. However, in Race to the Edge, we see that there's a lot, and I mean a lot more to the island. Another instance is Berk. It doesn't even have the Cove in SoD!!

• Game Mechanics programming (Flying, levelling system, quest systems, dialogue systems)
• User Interface programming
• User Interface designing
• User Interface art
• Modelling, which includes but isn't limited to:
  • Dragons
  • Human characters (playable and non-playable)
  • Environments (trees, bushes, mountains, cliffs, caves)
  • Houses
  • Decorations (carts, wells etc.)
• Texturing
• Shader programming
• Lighting programming
• Optimizing the game
• Writing a story
• Animations

Phew. If there is any questions based off of this post, or other questions regarding creating a game, feel free to ask!

Iantje

19 Feb 2019, 20:42

Thanks to hictooth for notifying me of this topic. It's been pretty fun breaking this all down and hopefully it's useful! Disclaimer: Please don't be demoralized by this. I see a lot of ambition in all of the posts here, but it's also important to be realistic considering I've seen the idea of actually developing a game.

Alright, cracks knuckles let's get to it.

You want to make a game
I have seen ideas about different dragon classes being able to smelt (/mine? How do you get the ore?) different metals, about having to fish to level up your dragon, different weather affecting which dragons come out/can be trained (btw there is only one Night Fury and it's Toothless, don't be like School of Dragons), "special events" (is what I'm gonna call them) in different seasons with different weather, play with any of the main cast (including villains), flying with your own dragon, swimming with your own dragon, having multiple dragons, taming dragons in the wild, hatching dragons from eggs, calling your dragon to be by your side, training that dragon call before you can use it, tutorials at Berk's Dragon Academy, dragon flying tricks, hubs (Berk and Dragon's Edge), dragon breeding, dragon specific skills, mini-games, time- and place-specific quests (GTA V actually implemented this with random events in specific places), a plot-line, play as a dragon, discovering new islands...

SCOOOOOPEEEE!!!!

The biggest downfall of games is the huge scope people believe the game should have. The opposite is true. A one-trick pony game is often more appreciated then a jack-of-all-traits kinda game. Think of The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim. A huge game, with huge open world, tons of quests and what is it really about? Being a part of this awesome fantasy world. Nothing more. All the quests are around exploring the world and discovering the story hidden in it. Bethesda (creator of Skyrim) tries really hard to get you sucked into their fantasy world. The Role Playing Game elements just help with that. They aren't the focus.

Imagine a game that implemented all of the features I listed above, but they were all half-done or not well implemented. That game would be, without the lack of a better word, awful. A game that isn't focused, is almost by definition doomed.

So, what should this game really be about? You might focus on flying your dragon, make flying a digital dragon feel effortless and freaking awesome. Do awesome stunts with key/control combinations. You could try and branch all of the other features off of flying. How about diving into the water to catch fish? Maybe you could do epic chases through the cliffs and mountains (think Test Drive from HTTYD1)? Hell, you could branch Dragon Racing off of the flying mechanic.

Maybe this game should be about the story and the world? Dial back the flying mechanics, a lot. Expand on the world, explore the Barbaric Archipelago, discover new dragon species, map the world like Hiccup did, discover other (Viking) settlements. Everything that is not to do with exploring should be a side thing.

How about a game that is totally about you and your companionship with your dragon? Give more time to the flying mechanics, but not as much as the first idea. Spend time with your companion, have some kind of story going on that really bonds you with the dragon. Train them, pet them, feed them, maybe feed yourself in the process.

Hopefully you see what I mean. Allow the game to be more focused. The more focused you can be on one specific feature, the more time you can put into it, the better that feature is developed and the more fun it is to play with that feature. That doesn't mean it just needs to be that one feature. Branch off of that feature.

If you really want all of the features listed, make multiple games.

BooksAreLikeDragons

04 Jan 2019, 09:15

Or perhaps the story could be set chronologically, where you play the plots of the films? Although I don't really like that idea.

YES. Tie-in games with movie franchises do not work with a chronological story line. That's just creating a very limited game where the player just plays the movie, and that's not fun.

BooksAreLikeDragons

05 Jan 2019, 08:19

tons more things to do and places to go. Sort of like Animal Crossing and Breath of the Wild, where there's never actually a true ending to the game - there's always something else to accomplish.

Oof, now that's a big task. Breath of the Wild most certainly has an ending, but it's just an enormous game. Animal Crossing has tons of content as well, and has a game designed around the idea that you will always want to come back and manage the village, and speak with the inhabitants. It might seem like endless content, but there is always a finite amount of content (let's not get into Procedurally Generated Content). Remember that these two games are made by Nintendo with teams of hundreds of people that all contribute to content in the game.

BooksAreLikeDragons

05 Jan 2019, 08:19

...except with better graphics (maybe someone could experiment with Unreal Engine?)

Dragonrider's Fury

09 Jan 2019, 20:41

One thing that I feel this game needs, is to use the official, or should I say real, models of Berk, Dragon's Edge, Outcast Island, Berserker Island, the Ice Nest... You get the idea. SoD is pretty decent as far as it goes, but there's a lot missing from, well, everywhere. For instance, Dragon's Edge. In SoD, it's pretty much just a mountain with a path going around it, and various buildings scattered about to make up the actual outpost. However, in Race to the Edge, we see that there's a lot, and I mean a lot more to the island. Another instance is Berk. It doesn't even have the Cove in SoD!!

Alright, let's talk about graphics. The models that Dreamworks uses for their animations can (sadly) not just be exported and used in a game. Actually, yes you could, technically, but your game would have the performance of a snail (read: 1 frame per second, if lucky). Dreamworks' assets are extremely detailed, and require a lot of power to be rendered. There is a reason Dreamworks still needs a ton of rendering servers to render everything in a reasonable time. Let's take a quick (simplified) lesson in rendering.

Most, if not all, 3D rendering happens in triangles, also known as tris. This might not be obvious from modern games, or, in fact, the movies, but it's basically all triangles or quads (two triangles making a square). You might ask "but how do you make smooth surfaces/circles?" and that's a good question. It's a lot of small triangles/quads. When rendering an object, the computer has to loop through all of the information of all of the tris and quads for a frame and put them in the right spots, in the right order. In a game that would be at least 30 times a second, preferable 60 times a second, and ideally even more.

And then there is shaders. Oh boy the shaders. If you have seen the movies with director's commentary (or a behind the scenes) you might have noticed that seemingly small effects were touted as "achievements". And ye, they were real achievements. I can not imagine the amount of time and trouble the animators went through to get the water like it is in the movie, to get the wind to affect the surroundings so beautifully, to get that reflection in Toothless' eyes, to get the fires so beautifully lit, actually everything so beautifully lit, because that requires a lot of work and a lot of power. All the effects I just talked about, most of it is generated by a computer through code. That code is called the shaders. Remember when I said two paragraphs ago that Dreamworks still needs a ton of servers? A big reason is because of the shaders.

Also, quick controversial opinion: Unity3D and Unreal Engine can achieve the same things graphics-wise, if you know what you're doing

The problem with open world
Open world games are amazing. The feeling of being free and able to go wherever you want to go is great. The problem with open world games though, is designing and then modelling that open world. The player can go anywhere. You'd have to model a lot of things, including things you might get away with to not model in a not open world situation (think the top of mountains, the back of a house which may be blocked by a fence, the ocean). The world also needs to have things to do, which is another problem. The amount of content you'd have to put in to make the player actually want to explore, is a big time waster.

The small army that develops a game
Let's say that the ideal situation is a game with good story and open world, what actually needs to be done? Answer: oh gods help us. Let's make a short list:

• Game Mechanics programming (Flying, levelling system, quest systems, dialogue systems)
• User Interface programming
• User Interface designing
• User Interface art
• Modelling, which includes but isn't limited to:
  • Dragons
  • Human characters (playable and non-playable)
  • Environments (trees, bushes, mountains, cliffs, caves)
  • Houses
  • Decorations (carts, wells etc.)
• Texturing
• Shader programming
• Lighting programming
• Optimizing the game
• Writing a story
• Animations

If you'd want to do all of this (and a lot more) in a reasonable timeframe (roughly a year) you would need a lot of people (think 5-10 people at least working on it for a year) with a lot of varying skills. Skills include the obvious stuff like modelling, texturing, writers, animators... and programming which has its own specialties like physics programming, UI programming, system programming, shader programming etc.

Tl;dr
Yes, there is tons of potential for games in the Dreamworks Dragons franchise. The question for Dreamworks is: is it worth our money and time? Are a ton of people actually going to play these games making it worth that time and money?
The answer is: likely not

To make a game, you need to KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid). Focus on one feature, branch off of that. Graphics are a difficult subject as well, but can definitely be made beautiful in whatever game engine. A style that exactly replicated the movies you will probably not get, but it's definitely possible to create a style inspired by that. The new Dawn of New Riders game is actually not too bad looking in my opinion. Recognizable characters, and an art style that is totally on its own. €40 though big oof.

Also there is the obvious legal trouble but that might actually be the least of the struggles right now.

Phew. If there is any questions based off of this post, or other questions regarding creating a game, feel free to ask!