valkasboy

16 Jun 2014, 22:47

Interesting stuff. I sympathize with everyone who feels that Valka doesn't get enough to do from the battle onwards, I agree. It's tough to squeeze these movies into ninety minutes and keep all the pieces balanced.

One thing I would like to caution people against, however, is laying all of this at Dean's doorstep. It's true, Dean's original vision for the film had Valka as a darker character, and Drago was not going to appear until film 3. But, I would not place the blame for the changes on Dean. He received many notes from multiple sources that he was obliged to deal with, and in my opinion he's a magician for being able to make a largely coherent movie considering the barrage of requests that he was deluged with. Some others may have thrown up their arms and quit, but he's a strong, patient, and insightful filmmaker and easily one of the best directors in the business.

I like Valka's flaws, it makes her interesting. She was always meant to represent the end of a path that Hiccup could go down, a mistaken path. Drago was a little like that too, in a different way. I think, as her animator, I would have preferred portraying her more like that, it would have been juicy! But early test audiences weren't liking it. Personally, I don't like the notion of relying on test screenings to shape your work, I think we should just make what we want to make.

We were tasked with the job of making her more likable, so her transition from feral back to civilized became a lot shorter which I thought was a bit of a shame. Some of my early tests on her were way more extreme, acting more like Matthew Modine in "Birdy"! There was a limit to how normal we could make her though, because if she's totally normal, it makes absolutely no sense for her to have stayed away, and I think many of you guys are feeling too close to that threshold. The last moment to go was right after Valka and Hiccup hug in the snow, she then said "Right, we'll start by rescuing Berk's dragons!" and a little argument ensued. It was a good moment for Hiccup as he realized that Valka's way, as much as Stoick's way, was not him.

I understand why the changes were made, I mean having your dad die, AND your mum revealed to be a psycho is a little much for one movie, well, for a general audience anyway. The hardcore fans probably would have liked it.

I adore this movie, and I adored working on Valka, it was challenging and satisfying, even with the changes to her character. I mean, in the old version I wouldn't have gotten to animate the kiss, and the Dancing and the Dreaming, and I'm not sure I would want to trade that.

Eret

16 Jun 2014, 22:56

And...Yep...I'm a Nerd

16 Jun 2014, 22:43

1. Yes. It's a bad thing that I think has very little to do with representing a strong female character.

2. This is almost the same answer, but yes I do feel it was a problem, but not one unique to Valka.

Earlier I said you misinterpreted my comment because you made it seem like you thought I wanted valka to have more to do just because of feminism, which isn't what I care about here so much as just good cohesive storytelling.

And...Yep...I'm a Nerd

16 Jun 2014, 23:01

Eret

16 Jun 2014, 22:56

And...Yep...I'm a Nerd

16 Jun 2014, 22:43

1. Yes. It's a bad thing that I think has very little to do with representing a strong female character.

2. This is almost the same answer, but yes I do feel it was a problem, but not one unique to Valka.

Earlier I said you misinterpreted my comment because you made it seem like you thought I wanted valka to have more to do just because of feminism, which isn't what I care about here so much as just good cohesive storytelling.

Ah well then that is my mistake. I was referring specifically to the article. Sorry.

Skywalker

16 Jun 2014, 22:54

I always thought her being the antagonist was a very interesting idea. But even if we take the character and idea presented in the film, they could have done a lot more with her imo. Does Dreamworks have some sort of mandate on the length of their films? Because this film could have done with another 15-20mins easily. A lot of exposition dumping in this film, and a lot of glossing over what should be more serious sources of conflict, like Valka running away from her family.

Valka also qualifies as the worst natural mother I can remember in an American animated film.

valkasboy

16 Jun 2014, 23:08

Skywalker

16 Jun 2014, 22:54

I always thought her being the antagonist was a very interesting idea. But even if we take the character and idea presented in the film, they could have done a lot more with her imo. Does Dreamworks have some sort of mandate on the length of their films? Because this film could have done with another 15-20mins easily. A lot of exposition dumping in this film, and a lot of glossing over what should be more serious sources of conflict, like Valka running away from her family.

Valka also qualifies as the worst natural mother I can remember in an American animated film.

She's a terrible mother. First conversation I had with Cate Blanchett when we were just getting started we talked about her being a terrible mother, someone who had lost her priorities, who probably hides a lot of guilt, someone who became blinded by a cause they were pursuing.

And yes, there is an absolute mandate on the length of the films. If they go over ninety minutes minus end credits (which we did) there are some very serious conversations happening. It's entirely budgetary. Early versions were, as you rightly felt, 15-20 minutes longer.

valkasboy

16 Jun 2014, 23:08

Skywalker

16 Jun 2014, 22:54

I always thought her being the antagonist was a very interesting idea. But even if we take the character and idea presented in the film, they could have done a lot more with her imo. Does Dreamworks have some sort of mandate on the length of their films? Because this film could have done with another 15-20mins easily. A lot of exposition dumping in this film, and a lot of glossing over what should be more serious sources of conflict, like Valka running away from her family.

Valka also qualifies as the worst natural mother I can remember in an American animated film.

She's a terrible mother. First conversation I had with Cate Blanchett when we were just getting started we talked about her being a terrible mother, someone who had lost her priorities, who probably hides a lot of guilt, someone who became blinded by a cause they were pursuing.

And yes, there is an absolute mandate on the length of the films. If they go over ninety minutes minus end credits (which we did) there are some very serious conversations happening. It's entirely budgetary. Early versions were, as you rightly felt, 15-20 minutes longer.

valkasboy

16 Jun 2014, 23:08

She's a terrible mother. First conversation I had with Cate Blanchett when we were just getting started we talked about her being a terrible mother, someone who had lost her priorities, who probably hides a lot of guilt, someone who became blinded by a cause they were pursuing.

valkasboy

16 Jun 2014, 23:08

And yes, there is an absolute mandate on the length of the films. If they go over ninety minutes minus end credits (which we did) there are some very serious conversations happening. It's entirely budgetary. Early versions were, as you rightly felt, 15-20 minutes longer.

Skywalker

16 Jun 2014, 22:35

The problem with Valka is she is introduced as this incredible dragon master, but by the time Drogo gets there, she is reduced to the sidelines, only called upon to be someone Stoick must protect.

underwater-smiles

16 Jun 2014, 23:28

Skywalker

16 Jun 2014, 22:35

The problem with Valka is she is introduced as this incredible dragon master, but by the time Drogo gets there, she is reduced to the sidelines, only called upon to be someone Stoick must protect.

I don't think she had ever actually fought someone/something, so of course she would need help in a fight. Even when she was on Berk, she's shown trying to protect dragons and Vikings alike, and avoid fighting, instead of jumping in like a lot of other vikings. She seems like the kind of person to use the "avoid and evade" tact when she has to fight. I don't think she's ever actually fought with Drago before he attacked her. She just sort of annoyed him, like she was an annoying fly to Drago, while stealing and saving the dragons he captured.

And another thing, how was she "on the sidelines"? She was in the middle of the battle the entire time! She did just as much as either Stoick or Hiccup did. She gets taken down by Drago and puts up a fight as long as she can. She's obviously never been a fighter, seen in the flash-backs, so how could she hold her own against someone like Drago?

Skywalker

16 Jun 2014, 23:36

underwater-smiles

16 Jun 2014, 23:28

Skywalker

16 Jun 2014, 22:35

The problem with Valka is she is introduced as this incredible dragon master, but by the time Drogo gets there, she is reduced to the sidelines, only called upon to be someone Stoick must protect.

I don't think she had ever actually fought someone/something, so of course she would need help in a fight. Even when she was on Berk, she's shown trying to protect dragons and Vikings alike, and avoid fighting, instead of jumping in like a lot of other vikings. She seems like the kind of person to use the "avoid and evade" tact when she has to fight. I don't think she's ever actually fought with Drago before he attacked her. She just sort of annoyed him, like she was an annoying fly to Drago, while stealing and saving the dragons he captured.

And another thing, how was she "on the sidelines"? She was in the middle of the battle the entire time! She did just as much as either Stoick or Hiccup did. She gets taken down by Drago and puts up a fight as long as she can. She's obviously never been a fighter, seen in the flash-backs, so how could she hold her own against someone like Drago?

My problem with this premise is she is a dragon master. She can fight, but she does so with her dragons. Look at how she captures Hiccup. She is not Stoick, but neither is Hiccup. There was absolutely no need for her to physically confront Drago. All she needed to do was call upon one of her many dragons to do that.

But for conflict reasons, she suddenly reduced to someone who does those things. And yeah, I'd call her sidelined. The Alpha mind control idea renders her pretty helpless.