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Article Claims that Valka Isn’t a Strong Female Character
Posted: 16 Jun 2014, 16:01
by duckizo
http://thedissolve.com/features/exposit ... ers-to-tr/
This is a pretty great article that lays out all of my frustrations with Valka and compares her with a lot of other animated women. Here are some excerpts, although I recommend reading the entire thing:
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DreamWorks’ How To Train Your Dragon 2 considerably expands the world introduced in the first film, and that expansion includes a significant new presence: Valka, the long-lost mother of dragon-riding protagonist Hiccup, voiced by Cate Blanchett. The film devotes much of its sweet, sensitive middle act to introducing her, and building her up into a complicated, nuanced character. She’s mysterious and formidable, capable of taking Hiccup and his dragon partner Toothless out of the sky with casual ease. She’s knowledgable: Two decades of studying dragons means she knows Toothless’ anatomy better than he does. She’s wise. She’s principled. She’s joyous. She’s divided. She’s damaged. She’s vulnerable. She’s something female characters so often aren’t in action/adventure films with male protagonists: She’s interesting.
Too bad the story gives her absolutely nothing to do……
Valka is just the latest example of the Superfluous, Flimsy Character disguised as a Strong Female Character. And possibly she’s the most depressing, considering Dragon 2’s other fine qualities, and considering how impressive she is in the abstract. The film spends so much time on making her first awe-inducing, then sympathetic, and just a little heartbreakingly pathetic in her isolation and awkwardness at meeting another human being. But once the introductions are finally done, and the battle starts, she immediately becomes useless, both to the rest of the cast and to the rapidly moving narrative. She faces the villain (the villain she’s apparently been successfully resisting alone for years!) and she’s instantly, summarily defeated. Her husband and son utterly overshadow her; they need to rescue her twice in maybe five minutes. Her biggest contribution to the narrative is in giving Hiccup a brief, rote “You are the Chosen One” pep talk. Then she all but disappears from the film, raising the question of why the story spent so much time on her in the first place. It may be because writer-director Dean DeBlois originally planned for her to be the film’s villain, then discarded that idea in later drafts. But those later drafts give her the setup of a complicated antagonist… and the resolution of no one at all. (Meanwhile, the actual villain gets virtually no backstory—which is fine, in a way—but it leaves the film unbalanced.)
It’s harsh, but I think the author hits the nail on the head. I’d love to hear what you guys think!
Article Claims that Valka Isn’t a Strong Female Character
Posted: 16 Jun 2014, 16:10
by Eret
i mostly sort of agree with the article and in my opinion they should have kept her as the sympathetic villain like dean originally planned before he changed his mind and made a stereotypical big bad guy. she is an AWESOME character in every way Drago isn't, she fits in the franchise's universe and tone better than Drago ever will...what a lost opportunity. They could have and should have done more with her but not in the movie as is it, which had way too much happening already.
Article Claims that Valka Isn’t a Strong Female Character
Posted: 16 Jun 2014, 17:27
by mycove
I didn't know Valka was supposed to be a villain in early drafts...
And now I read this article, it's true that once they form a family again, she has no predominant role, except comforting Hiccup.
By the way, she says he was born early, and while she was scared, Stoick believed he would live, and grow to be the strongest of all. Well I would have thought it would have been the other way around, which would have explained some of the difficulties of communication between father and son. But after all, I like this idea too. Stoick has always been confident when it comes to Hiccup, and I believe he has always been proud of his son, but was stuck between his feelings and what was expected of a Viking, by the tribe, maybe by Stoick's father himself, and it was difficult for Stoick to listen to his heart and snap out of the social standards.
Back to Valka, she is a complex character indeed, and she has her flaws. For example, she feels guilty for leaving. she's scared that Hiccup might reject her, or to face Stoick. And she has been fighting for the dragons against Drago, but kept hiding and escaping from him. Her physical fight with him was probably the first one, and she only dared to challenge him because he was attacking (and she had her son and husband with her).
It's an interesting subject, thanks for bringing it up !
Article Claims that Valka Isn’t a Strong Female Character
Posted: 16 Jun 2014, 17:32
by CityCreek
Making Valka a villain would make How to Train your Dragon 2 the inception of Animated films.
In other words, so much was already going on, and if that was added it would have just been confusing and all over the place for me, just such a busy story. *-* I have to see it again just to fully grasp the plot-line and details I missed, I'm glad they didn't overcomplicate it that much.
Article Claims that Valka Isn’t a Strong Female Character
Posted: 16 Jun 2014, 17:58
by And...Yep...I'm a Nerd
Everyone got worked over by Drago! Drago smacked around Stoick the Vast despite the fact that he has half as many working arms! Hiccup would have lasted all of three seconds if HE had tried to straight up fight him. I don't know I just don't feel that the ability to be physically dominant should be the only way we define "strength" in a character. Valka has the courage of conviction, and the strength of character to absorb the loss of her husband while providing a source of courage for her grieving son.
Also don't remember the part where Hiccup and/or Stoick were commanding a pack of fiery dragon cartwheels.
Article Claims that Valka Isn’t a Strong Female Character
Posted: 16 Jun 2014, 18:10
by Eret
- CityCreek
- 16 Jun 2014, 21:32
Making Valka a villain would make How to Train your Dragon 2 the inception of Animated films.
In other words, so much was already going on, and if that was added it would have just been confusing and all over the place for me, just such a busy story. *-* I have to see it again just to fully grasp the plot-line and details I missed, I'm glad they didn't overcomplicate it that much.
I don't agree, if Valka had been the villain and not Drago, it would have made the story much, much less busy. Having the two of them both be introduced and developed in the same film was way too much. Plus most of the movie focuses on Hiccup finding and reconnecting with Valka in the first place, its not until the last few scenes that Drago even becomes all that important.
- And...Yep...I'm a Nerd
- 16 Jun 2014, 21:58
Everyone got worked over by Drago! Drago smacked around Stoick the Vast despite the fact that he has half as many working arms! Hiccup would have lasted all of three seconds if HE had tried to straight up fight him. I don't know I just don't feel that the ability to be physically dominant should be the only way we define "strength" in a character. Valka has the courage of conviction, and the strength of character to absorb the loss of her husband while providing a source of courage for her grieving son.
Also don't remember the part where Hiccup and/or Stoick commanding a pack of fiery dragon cartwheels.
I dont think thats really what they're referring to in this article, at least what I got from it is that valka did start off courageous and brave and unique but then she got the shaft in the last third of the movie and ended up doing nothing and helping the battle very little, even needing to be rescued- twice. For all the time that the movie spent on her, she didn't end up being very important.
Article Claims that Valka Isn’t a Strong Female Character
Posted: 16 Jun 2014, 18:21
by And...Yep...I'm a Nerd
- Eret
- 16 Jun 2014, 22:10
- CityCreek
- 16 Jun 2014, 21:32
Making Valka a villain would make How to Train your Dragon 2 the inception of Animated films.
In other words, so much was already going on, and if that was added it would have just been confusing and all over the place for me, just such a busy story. *-* I have to see it again just to fully grasp the plot-line and details I missed, I'm glad they didn't overcomplicate it that much.
I don't agree, if Valka had been the villain and not Drago, it would have made the story much, much less busy. Having the two of them both be introduced and developed in the same film was way too much. Plus most of the movie focuses on Hiccup finding and reconnecting with Valka in the first place, its not until the last few scenes that Drago even becomes all that important.
- And...Yep...I'm a Nerd
- 16 Jun 2014, 21:58
Everyone got worked over by Drago! Drago smacked around Stoick the Vast despite the fact that he has half as many working arms! Hiccup would have lasted all of three seconds if HE had tried to straight up fight him. I don't know I just don't feel that the ability to be physically dominant should be the only way we define "strength" in a character. Valka has the courage of conviction, and the strength of character to absorb the loss of her husband while providing a source of courage for her grieving son.
Also don't remember the part where Hiccup and/or Stoick commanding a pack of fiery dragon cartwheels.
I dont think thats really what they're referring to in this article, at least what I got from it is that valka did start off courageous and brave and unique but then she got the shaft in the last third of the movie and ended up doing nothing and helping the battle very little, even needing to be rescued- twice. For all the time that the movie spent on her, she didn't end up being very important.
I recall Hiccup also needing to be rescued. And I seem to recall quite a few characters who had little to no actual impact in the battle. Honestly I could argue Hiccup was one of them. I mean his whole plan was talking to the murderous raving lunatic, then trying to reason with his clearly mind controlled dragon so that his dad had to sacrifice himself to save his life. In fact, if we wanted to further extend that argument we could really say that other than the two Bewilderbeasts, no one really had that much of an impact. I don't mind having a discussion like this but if you want to find movies that trivialize female roles, this is not the movie to do it with.
Article Claims that Valka Isn’t a Strong Female Character
Posted: 16 Jun 2014, 18:30
by Eret
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I recall Hiccup also needing to be rescued. And I seem to recall quite a few characters who had little to no actual impact in the battle. Honestly I could argue Hiccup was one of them. I mean his whole plan was talking to the murderous raving lunatic, then trying to reason with his clearly mind controlled dragon so that his dad had to sacrifice himself to save his life. In fact, if we wanted to further extend that argument we could really say that other than the two Bewilderbeasts, no one really had that much of an impact. I don't mind having a discussion like this but if you want to find movies that trivialize female roles, this is not the movie to do it with.
You are... completely misinterpreting what I'm saying. Completely. I'm not saying she should have a big part just because she's a female. I'm saying they spent so much time on her and made her seem like she was going to be important and then its like she might as well have never shown up at all. I don't want her to have a bigger role in the movie as it is, because they already wrote themselves in to a corner enough with the ten different plots going on at once. a better solution would have been to rewrite it and put more of dragos stuff in the third movie if they really really wanted him, and finish what they started with valka in the second. The second should have been about valka and the third about him.
Article Claims that Valka Isn’t a Strong Female Character
Posted: 16 Jun 2014, 18:35
by Skywalker
The problem with Valka is she is introduced as this incredible dragon master, but by the time Drogo gets there, she is reduced to the sidelines, only called upon to be someone Stoick must protect.
Article Claims that Valka Isn’t a Strong Female Character
Posted: 16 Jun 2014, 18:39
by Eret
^exactly, thank you, they set her up to be very important but go nowhere with her, and its a shame because she is such a cool character and could have easily acted as the primary antagonist with a little bit of imagination..... meh...