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Cloudjumper's presense in Berk?
Topic Started: 19 Jul 2014, 12:40 (2526 Views)
Faerie_Dragon
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So I watched Dragons 2 for the 5th time today and I have a question regarding Cloudjumper being in Berk 20 years ago (when he abducted Valka).

Why was he there? We know that dragons went to Berk in get food for the Red Death in the first movie. So why does Cloudjumper go to Berk?
He wasn't under the control of the Red Death since he goes back to the Bewilderbeast with Valka.

Berk wouldn't exactly be a stroll either since it took Drago and his Bewilderbeast a night cycle to get to Berk from the Good Bewilderbeast's Dragon Sanctuary.

So why was Cloudjumper at Berk at all?
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Toothless123
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*head starts to fill with ideas for a fanfic*
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AndyMay
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Could it not be possible that 20 years ago the bewilderbeast was much closer to Berk but then moved and built the cave? Or possibly Cloudjumper used to be under the control of the Red Death, but upon meeting Valka was able to break free (maybe in a similar way to how Toothless was able to with Hiccup).


I dunno. Just throwing a couple of ideas around.
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BerserkDragon
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AndyMay
19 Jul 2014, 19:19
Could it not be possible that 20 years ago the bewilderbeast was much closer to Berk but then moved and built the cave? Or possibly Cloudjumper used to be under the control of the Red Death, but upon meeting Valka was able to break free (maybe in a similar way to how Toothless was able to with Hiccup).


I dunno. Just throwing a couple of ideas around.
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ToothlessNightFury
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AndyMay
19 Jul 2014, 19:19
Could it not be possible that 20 years ago the bewilderbeast was much closer to Berk but then moved and built the cave? Or possibly Cloudjumper used to be under the control of the Red Death, but upon meeting Valka was able to break free (maybe in a similar way to how Toothless was able to with Hiccup).


I dunno. Just throwing a couple of ideas around.
This makes most sense to me. Along the lines of what I was guessig. Once in the dragons were in touch with a rider/teen they were able to break free from the red death's controll
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VeloYourSwaggyDragon
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This is slightly off topic, but this coincides with confusion of Cloudjumper being on Berk 20 years ago.

Can I add that Hiccup didn't even mention the Red Death and that he killed it when he told Valka what happened between him and Toothless and how Berk had totally converted to living alongside dragons? It's as if it was intentional to throw the memory of the Red Death away as if it never happened...

Also, the Red Death completely ruins Valka's philosophy that dragons are bad only when they are under control of bad people.
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Dragon's Apprentice
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VeloYourSwaggyDragon
20 Jul 2014, 20:59

Also, the Red Death completely ruins Valka's philosophy that dragons are bad only when they are under control of bad people.
erm... I don't think that was said-- correct me if i'm wrong - i've only seen it twice

I don't remember her saying "all dragons are good and the only bad ones are controlled by bad people". it was more like "good dragons under the control of bad people do bad things" (which is kind of a point against animal cruelty- like cock and dog fighting imo...)
It doesn't really say there are no bad dragons- or does she actually say that? :S

for the topic- maybe it took a while for the alpha to learn to fish? or maybe the alpha had more dragons back at that time and couldnt feed them all- until drago reduced his flock (flock pack clouder- i dunno what you call a group of dragons-- it's my topic- no one steal it. - unless it's been done before... :/ ) or maybe the fish population had declined due to over feeding... or maybe valka bonded with the alpha and taught her new dragon friends a better way... tbh this list is endless....


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VeloYourSwaggyDragon
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Dragon's Apprentice
21 Jul 2014, 00:49
VeloYourSwaggyDragon
20 Jul 2014, 20:59
Also, the Red Death completely ruins Valka's philosophy that dragons are bad only when they are under control of bad people.
erm... I don't think that was said-- correct me if i'm wrong - i've only seen it twice

I don't remember her saying "all dragons are good and the only bad ones are controlled by bad people". it was more like "good dragons under the control of bad people do bad things" (which is kind of a point against animal cruelty- like cock and dog fighting imo...)
It doesn't really say there are no bad dragons- or does she actually say that? :S
You're right that she didn't say "all dragons are good and the only bad ones are controlled by bad people". But the actual quote stills leaves the question that either all or most dragons are innocent open. I'm sure it was intentional to add in "good dragons" instead of just "dragons" to that line to prevent confusion, but it's still debatable whether she believes there can be bad dragons who do bad things at their own will; she never mentioned evil-minded dragons just being evil in the movie. However, the impression I received from her character is that she would stand by any and every dragon's side. I could be wrong though.

That's something I wonder and kind of hope we'll discover in the third film.

I should say something on-topic so I don't steer everybody off the main conversation xD
I agree with AndyMay's prediction, however, when Valka was talking about what happened after being kidnapped she said "...he thought I must have belonged here, in the home of the great Bewilderbeast" and the camera pans over the Bewilderbeast in the center of his nest. This draws me to the conclusion that Cloudjumper and the king of dragons was living in the same nest in the movie even before Valka's kidnapping. So I think the only other possibility for his presence on Berk was to gather more food because there was a shortage of resources or the Bewilderbeast didn't know how to feed all his dragons, basically what Dragon's Apprentice said. ;)
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ToothlessNightFury
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VeloYourSwaggyDragon
20 Jul 2014, 20:59
Can I add that Hiccup didn't even mention the Red Death and that he killed it when he told Valka what happened between him and Toothless and how Berk had totally converted to living alongside dragons? It's as if it was intentional to throw the memory of the Red Death away as if it never happened...
I've been wondering about this. Especially since as his mother Valka never fully questioned how Hiccup got his metal leg. All she knows is that Toothless cluldn't save all of him. But she never questioned what Toothless was trying to save him from. I'm wondering if maybe eventually in a short or in season 4 it will show him explaining about the red death?
Believe a Dragon Can Thaw A Frozen Heart Role Play Based of HTTYD and Frozen

Around here we don't look back. We keep moving forward, opening up new doors and doing new things, because we're curious...and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths.-Walt Disney

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Eret
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ToothlessNightFury
21 Jul 2014, 13:16
VeloYourSwaggyDragon
20 Jul 2014, 20:59
Can I add that Hiccup didn't even mention the Red Death and that he killed it when he told Valka what happened between him and Toothless and how Berk had totally converted to living alongside dragons? It's as if it was intentional to throw the memory of the Red Death away as if it never happened...
I've been wondering about this. Especially since as his mother Valka never fully questioned how Hiccup got his metal leg. All she knows is that Toothless cluldn't save all of him. But she never questioned what Toothless was trying to save him from. I'm wondering if maybe eventually in a short or in season 4 it will show him explaining about the red death?
Yeah, they changed the subject very quickly from Hiccup to Valka's past. Valka cared just enough to ask about Toothless's tail, but didn't really care about Hiccup's leg, or ask about Stoick more than just "what did he think of your dragon", or listen to Hiccup when he tried to tell her Berk had changed. She changed the subject to talk about how she left Berk, and that was it of their "catching up", at least until Stoick arrived. And from what we saw in the DATD scene, she didn't really participate in that conversation very much either.

Honestly, I think it gives Valka more of a character flaw in that she's quite self-centered and doesn't really have much of a concern for others (or at least, other humans). It makes sense for her character, I think, and the choices she makes. The fact that she's not perfect makes her just as real and interesting as Stoick or Hiccup, who have flaws of their own.
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