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| How Astrid indirectly caused the death of Stoick | |
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| Topic Started: 19 Jul 2014, 15:02 (4461 Views) | |
| BerserkDragon | 19 Jul 2014, 15:02 Post #11 |
antisocial british nerd with a youtube channel
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I don't think she actually smirked, it was just a weak smile as if to say "He was a strong chief, and now he's in his new home of Valhalla, so Hiccup must follow in his footsteps." |
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Me? An otaku? Pfff. Yes I do like dragons if you're wondering. Doesn't seem like it from my profile pic n signature, I know, but I do. 
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| ACMusicVids | 19 Jul 2014, 17:12 Post #12 |
Hatchling
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Well if you ask me,  was pretty much the course of  's death too.Why? Simply because of that stupid nativity he somehow got. He was told by several people, including  who had spent years convincing Berk to think otherwise about dragons, and who had met  , but still he chose not to listen. For some reason had to be "convinced" about dragons but with Alvin and Dagur, knew that they should not get the same knowledge as the berkians did - why should then, when he had even more evil intentions? 's speech is also a course, as she spoke up to something he wasn't, but it was who constantly wanted to get in contact with .
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| Eret | 19 Jul 2014, 17:29 Post #13 |
....Son of Eret
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I think the part about Drago vs Alvin and Dagur can be chalked up to just bad writing on the TV show's part. Its more in character for hiccup to be naive and try to change someones mind peacefully as in the films than it is for him to just fight all his enemies without a second thought like he does in the TV show so often. And thats not just true with only Alvin and Dagur; weirdly his first response to hostile dragons in the TV show is very often to fight them, not... you know.... train them..... |
| Eret | 19 Jul 2014, 17:55 Post #14 |
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....Son of Eret
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Also.... I'm still not really exactly sure what the point of Astrid blabbing to Drago was?? I'm guessing she was trying to intimidate him but.... I still don't really get what she was going for there. |
| KentuckyWildcat | 19 Jul 2014, 18:32 Post #15 |
Raw Vikingness
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Me neither, and that's why I really don't like that scene. She could have been going for intimidation, which would be odd considering that Drago pretty much held the life or her entire group in his hands at that particular moment. I guess she could have also just been so proud of Hiccup that she couldn't pass on a chance to brag about him even at a bad moment for it. Either way, I really thought Astrid was smarter than that. I was a bit disappointed that they had her do something so dumb since she's one of my favorite characters. |
| Come death. Come suffering. I will not live in fear. In this fleeting life where time escapes us, the path of least resistance is a slow quiet death. I'd rather burn out than fade away. | |
| Jendora | 20 Jul 2014, 00:46 Post #16 |
Hiccup's Girlfriend
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I walked out of the theater thinking this exact thing. Astrid had good intentions, but she probably should've known that Drago would not be intimidated and would, instead, see this as a challenge. I also agree that Hiccup is also involved. He had that idea that he could change Drago's mind simply because he changed his father's and all of Berk's minds. Yeah...not a convincing argument there, really. This idea really hit me when I read a fanfic where it was Hiccup who died and the story was about Astrid grieving and realizing that she played a role in the death of her boyfriend. Yeah...not all that relevant, but that's just when I really got to thinking about it. |
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| micromys | 20 Jul 2014, 03:43 Post #17 |
Cathartes Aura
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I think they were trying to show Astrid going for intimidation, because she's good at that, but it didn't really make sense there. Astrid is smart enough to know when that's appropriate and when it isn't, and I thought that felt clunky and forced. I know they had to get Drago prompted into attacking the nest somehow, but I still feel it was a rather poor use of her character. Still, as some people have brought up, if you're going to blame Astrid then you have to blame Hiccup, too. She wouldn't have been anywhere near Drago if Hiccup hadn't been insistent on going to find him. I mean, Astrid's strategy was terrible, but just imagine if Hiccup hadn't been waylaid by Valka and actually got to Drago on his own. I can't see that scenario ending any better, and very probably worse. And it's not insulting him to say so, Hiccup knows this. It's why he says "I'm not the peacekeeper I thought I was." Stoick's death was a very harsh lesson for Hiccup, but an important one, I think. Still, I wouldn't blame either of them. They were both trying to do the best they could, even if it didn't turn out like they wanted. I feel weird when anyone tries to blame anyone but Drago for this. He would have attacked eventually -- for all we know, Astrid might have helped in a weird way by getting him to attack before his preparations were complete. We know the scenario that ends with Stoick's death, but Drago would have still come for them in time, and he would have still had his alpha (which none of them knew about and thus couldn't have prepared for, remember), and likely would have still taken control of Toothless and for all we know may have actually succeeded in getting him to kill Hiccup. There are so many ways it could have turned out, and I think most of them are pretty harsh. |
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| BirdyTheBrave | 20 Jul 2014, 04:41 Post #18 |
I like big books and I cannot lie.
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Oh, my gods, I nearly threw my iPad out the window when I saw you said that, until I saw the last two lines. Phew. I would die if that is what had happened. Now excuse me, I am going into hibernation until I recover from what I nearly just read. |
Update guys: It's party time with Joe.
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| Norskie | 20 Jul 2014, 11:59 Post #19 |
Norskie
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In some ways, I agree with this theory. However, like it has been said, we can't direct the entire blame to any one character. You have Hiccup who is seeking out Drago, you have Drago being Drago, you have Astrid trying to come up with some sort of plan (which went a little too far) and then you have Eret who reveals to Drago that there are Dragon Riders. But, there was sort of another thing I was thinking about for the past couple of weeks, in some ways, this saved Berk. Remember when Drago said "stop all preparations, we attack Berk at once"? What was he preparing for? No doubt it would've been something larger than what we saw on screen and quite something that Berk couldn't handle. |
 Uff da, yo. | |
| TheBlackFluffyThing | 20 Jul 2014, 12:09 Post #20 |
Terrible Terror
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I think it's very out of character for Astrid to give away that much information to an enemy, but it wasn't this alone that killed Stoick. My explanation for your second plot hole is that maybe Drago wanted to make his dragon army bigger before attacking Berk, because after everything Astrid told him he probably thought his Dragons weren't enough. And after his Bewilderbeast killed Valka's all of her dragons were in his army too. |
 Night Fury: The unholy offspring of lightning and death itself. | |
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Still, I really doubt she did it on purpose. That "smirk" doesn't really seem like an "I just purposely caused the death of the chief of my tribe for my own selfish gain" sort of smile, and besides, she would have been the wife of a chief anyways because Stoick's not immortal.
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