Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
Storyboards with Valka as a villain
Topic Started: 05 Sep 2014, 07:21 (5514 Views)
DarthBacon
User avatar
Gronckle

Wow. You and me have very different views on this. I actually think that having Valka in this movie makes what Hiccup did in the first movie as something remarkable. Valka was kidnapped, and then she chose to stay with the dragons thinking that people weren't capable of change. She was not willing to take the risk, thinking that she would hurt more dragons in the process, or even hurt Stoick or Hiccup. She chose to stay behind with the dragons, and thus the war continued.

Now look at what Hiccup did. He knew that all was going to hell if his dad found about Toothless. He knew that he was putting his life at a HUGE risk by facing Hookfang. He knew that he would lose all the respect he has earned from his dad, and Berk. He pretty much gave up everything that he had at that moment. And that was for what? All he needed to do to keep Toothless safe was fly away with him, like Valka. But he chose to stay, and he chose to prove that his dad, and all other people in Berk were wrong. He chose to try and change the world for the better, which he ultimately did.

  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Cartoon Freak
User avatar
Deadly Nadder

Actually, Hiccup was going to run away (well, fly away, but you get the idea), until Astrid found out, and that forced his hand. After that, there was no way he could just run away, because Astrid would know. Heck, Astrid said that she was going to tell Stoick about the island and how to get to it, and we all know well that would have turned out. Valka just didn't have someone to force her hand in such a fashion.

That's pretty much it. There is more that can be said, but it's ultimately irrelevant to this topic, because the point still stands: the idea of Hiccup embodying the best of Stoick and Valka would only be strengthened by making Valka an antagonist in the second film, as Stoick was an antagonist in the first film.
Number of times I've watched the trailer: 18.

My pet peeve: people who refer to complete strangers by their first name. The correct ways to refer to a "John Smith" whom you have never met are Smith, Mr Smith, or John Smith. Not "John". He's not your buddy.
  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Coyote-Walker
User avatar
Mermaid Viking

I had wished she was more feral. I mean, you would be after that long alone. Maybe not this extreme, but def more that what she was.

Although, I must say, the bit where Hiccup admits it was him that injured Toothless...while I am not entirely happy with the nervous way Hiccup told it (something about his acting was off), I was very very impressed with her acting in the scene. You could see the disappointment and deep upset cross her face, and in her body language when she dropped eye contact and chooses not to comment on how she feels about it simply by asking what Stoick thought of Toothless. Her whole way of moving and express in that moment is someone: 1. Not liking what they just heard, 2. Being disappointed at who they heard it from, 3. and choosing to drop it (probably because she wasn't there to influence him and so knows his only influences were people whose morals she didn't agree with either). It's beautifully done.

I agree that making her more feral would not have changed the flying with mother sequence, since in those storyboards she says (I'm not quoting exactly here) "I've done enough of that (trusting)". Which shows she did bond, or try to bond with Hiccup and Stoick, but she feels it backfired. Literally you would have all the same scenes, just with a better and more believable reaction. I don't think it would've made her evil, just human.

I can see why they would've taken it out though. Without her being the main "bad guy" the plot would've been way way too messy.
Tumblr
  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Pikey
User avatar
Wow!

I'm sure even she had questioned or made comments about Hiccup regarding the tail, he would've spent more time defending himself about it, which would've been a bit long when really they would like to move on with the rest of the scene. He could've told it better admittedly, a bit too casual I think...?
  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Coyote-Walker
User avatar
Mermaid Viking

Pikey
05 Sep 2014, 20:02
I'm sure even she had questioned or made comments about Hiccup regarding the tail, he would've spent more time defending himself about it, which would've been a bit long when really they would like to move on with the rest of the scene. He could've told it better admittedly, a bit too casual I think...?
The casual didn't bother me, honestly. The nervousness did. It was play wrong. I expect casual, they've both come to grips with it.

I've seen in a few fanfics an idea that the reason hiccup lost his leg was because toothless had to grab him by it and throw him with it into his protective hold. If that is the case then they're both dependant on each other because of each other.

For whatever reason, I believe they would have it settled. If someone asked they'd simply be all like "This happened." instead of "well....its a long story *bashful* ....and well this happened". Am I making sense?
Tumblr
  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Quincy Dan
Member Avatar
The real Hiccup

Cartoon Freak
04 Sep 2014, 06:59

And please don't give me that tripe about audiences not being able to deal with the mother as an antagonistic figure. I have two words to say to that: Darth Vader. If audiences could handle the father being a villain, why not the mother? Heck, this is still showing Valka firmly in the well-intentioned extremist category with a side helping of insanity, which is way less evil than Vader was in The Empire Strikes Back (one can argue that the prequels changed him into a well-intentioned extremist, for better or for worse).
I agree to a point. Darth Vader wasn't the REAL evil one in Star Wars, the Emperor was. I'm a bit of a Star Wars fan too. But this would have been a more interesting plot if this was left in the film.
  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Cartoon Freak
User avatar
Deadly Nadder

Darth Vader was the main antagonist in The Empire Strikes Back, which is the relevant film in this comparison. Before you bring up the idea that he was acting under the Emperor's orders, I would just like to point out that he was looking for Luke (and specifically him) even before the Emperor contacted him in the asteroid field.

Of course, the Emperor was the main antagonist in Return of the Jedi, and from what I gather, Drago was originally meant to be the main villain in the third film but not the second, so the analogy is pretty darn solid.
Number of times I've watched the trailer: 18.

My pet peeve: people who refer to complete strangers by their first name. The correct ways to refer to a "John Smith" whom you have never met are Smith, Mr Smith, or John Smith. Not "John". He's not your buddy.
  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
orcadolphin
User avatar
Terrible Terror

Fanfiction writers.

Get on this immediately.

I want to see this happen wow
Drey anahlrii saag dovah?

  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Pikey
User avatar
Wow!

Coyote-Walker
06 Sep 2014, 19:53
The casual didn't bother me, honestly. The nervousness did. It was play wrong. I expect casual, they've both come to grips with it.
I know they're fine about it, but in terms of explaining it to Valka is a different case. :huh:
  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Cartoon Freak
User avatar
Deadly Nadder

The nervousness makes perfect sense. Valka's just been describing what a horrible person Drago is for mutilating various dragons (well, technically, I suppose it would be Eret if anyone stopped to think about it - I'm sure Drago would much rather have undamaged merchandise - but that's another matter entirely), and Hiccup's having to admit that he did much the same thing. Awkward, to say the least.

But...

It does look out of place, for one simple reason: they never go anywhere with it. This is an opportunity for conflict between Hiccup and Valka that doesn't even require the latter to be an antagonist as such, and they cut it short. This isn't the only example, either - Valka's insistence that neither Stoick nor Drago could change should create some form of conflict with Hiccup, who has the opposite viewpoint (and, in the case of Stoick, Hiccup knows for a fact that Valka is wrong), but the only thing that comes of it is that Hiccup decides to leave to find Drago, and even that's rendered pointless by the fact that Stoick and Gobber show up at that moment.

And that's not even getting into the fact that she kidnapped Hiccup, a fact that is never mentioned ever again in the movie.

That's pretty much the problem with Valka: she's not perfect, but she might as well be, given that her flaws make absolutely no difference to her interactions with anyone else.

If I had to take a guess as to why this is the case, I would say that when DeBlois had to stop Valka from being the villain (or at least when he came to believe that was a necessity), he seriously overcompensated by removing any conflict between Valka and any non-evil character, thus removing any interesting character interactions with her.
Number of times I've watched the trailer: 18.

My pet peeve: people who refer to complete strangers by their first name. The correct ways to refer to a "John Smith" whom you have never met are Smith, Mr Smith, or John Smith. Not "John". He's not your buddy.
  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Users browsing this forum:
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests
Print view
« Previous Topic · How to Train Your Dragon 2 · Next Topic »
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4