Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
Toothless' Tail?
Topic Started: 07 Jun 2018, 21:53 (2572 Views)
jeremykuan
User avatar
Dragon Egg



So apparently his tail is fine now? Might be a flashback, or a different Night Fury, or Hiccup made a super realistic tail fin?
"There were dragons...when I was a boy. Where they went, only a few know. Our story changed the world forever.”

-Hiccup Horrendous Haddock III

  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Whitefang
User avatar
twelve days north of hopeless

I noticed this too. He's wearing his regular tail or nothing at all in every other shot we've gotten, so it seems slightly unlikely that Hiccup would've made him another tail? He did have a black automatic one in Gift of the Night Fury though, so it is possible that they just made another variation of that.
Those are really the only three possible explanations since he wouldn't regrow a tail, and personally I feel like a flashback makes the most sense right now? Very interesting though.
Find me on tumblr and deviantart!
I have been here an embarrassingly long time




8)
  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Luna G. Hofferson
User avatar
Aphmau is the best!

It looks so realistic though....
"You can kill me once, but you can't kill me twice." - Luna Rainclaw
  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Lovaasnah
User avatar
Hatchling

Well at least we can say where sparky got his nick name haha....The Unholy Offspring of Lightening and Death....NAILED IT! Haha!

It really looks like our boy but it would be so neat if it were a flashback of perhaps one of his parents fighting to keep him safe as a young dragon and ultimately getting captured/dying so Toothless could escape. We may have a flashback actually but that really does look like Toothless there in that particular shot.

I hope they do not recycle Snoggletog material with a new self operating tail.

We shall see!
  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Oneill5491
User avatar
Terrible Terror

Nah, it's not a flashback.

Pic showing his fins extended and in "alpha mode", something he didn't know how to do until the second film:



Pic showing his nubs that were visible only in the second film:



Pic showing what appears to be an artificial device attached to his tail:



My guess is he either found some sort of skrill-like attack ability (they are the same class of dragon after all) or he is doing something similar to the Light Fury with how she disappears/teleports?
  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Whitefang
User avatar
twelve days north of hopeless

Damn, good observations. Looks like it is Toothless then, though that new tail is definitely not red.
Find me on tumblr and deviantart!
I have been here an embarrassingly long time




8)
  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Cartoon Freak
User avatar
Deadly Nadder

First of all, good observation skills, everyone. I'd been too distracted by Toothless going all Thor here to actually notice any of this.

Overall, I'm really not sure what to think of all this. In principle, I'm against the idea of Toothless flying solo (especially after the brilliant ending to Gift of the Night Fury), but the probable ending of this movie kind of necessitates it. In regards to the new tail fin specifically, I don't like the design at this point, as I prefer something a little more colourful for contrast. Seeing the original, dull brown tail fin get replaced with a red one is one of my favourite little bits from the first movie. Then again, this could be a case of the design looking better (or even just very different) in the finished product, under different lighting, etc.

One little thing to take from all this that is, I think, very good: this scene now appears to take place within the main timeframe of the movie. I am all in favour of this, as I don't think complicated, nonlinear plots really play to DeBlois' strengths as a writer or director. Methinks simplicity is the way to go here.
Number of times I've watched the trailer: 18.

My pet peeve: people who refer to complete strangers by their first name. The correct ways to refer to a "John Smith" whom you have never met are Smith, Mr Smith, or John Smith. Not "John". He's not your buddy.
  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Cartoon Freak
User avatar
Deadly Nadder

A minor update: DeBlois talked a little about this matter in this interview:

https://www.slashfilm.com/dean-deblois- ... n-world/2/

I'll quote the specific section below (MINOR SPOILERS).
Spoiler: click to toggle
And once again, I'll just point out that I'm very conflicted on this whole matter. On the one hand, I get that DeBlois kind of has to do this on two levels, even independent of whatever exact plot point brings it about. The first is plot-related. If the story ends with dragons leaving the visible/accessible world (which, by all accounts, it does), then there needs to be some sort of way through which Toothless is not rendered flightless. Secondly, from a thematic perspective, it obviously makes sense for Hiccup and Toothless to arrive at a point where they no longer need each other, however painful that might be.

However...

I'm rarely in favour of simply removing a character's weakness. Weaknesses make characters, especially heroic ones, so much more interesting and relatable. Let's take one of the classic examples: Superman's vulnerability to Kryptonite. Now this is a bit of a diabolicus ex machina, but it does make the character more relatable. We may not have such an obvious physical weakness, but we do have things that make it harder to succeed. Whenever Superman is able to push through this weakness to save the day, it's inspiring. If you simply remove this weakness, then you lose part of what makes the character interesting.

It's similar here. Toothless' disability is a key part of what makes the character so appealing, and seeing the ways in which Hiccup and Toothless are able to work around that weakness is a large part of what makes the first film in particular work. Simply giving Toothless the ability to fly by himself is cheap, and not nearly as interesting to watch. I have issues with Gift of the Night Fury for this reason, but that short had the sense to destroy that rig at the end, in an almost meta rejection of the concept.

With all that said, I should mention that neither the rig in GotNF, the 'glide mode' in HTTYD 2, nor whatever self-controlled tail fin Hiccup whips up in this movie, remove Toothless' weakness entirely. The fin itself, or even just the connection of the fin to Toothless, can still be destroyed.

And that brings me to my second problem with the idea: it doesn't actually solve the plot problem. No matter how Hiccup constructs this new tail fin, it's still going to break down at some point. Toothless is still going to be left flightless at some point. Now, maybe DeBlois will address this point in the movie somehow, but honestly, I doubt it. The whole thing is a bit of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation from a writing perspective.

Sorry if I rambled, but the issue is rather important to me. I feel that Toothless losing his tail fin is the single most important aspect of the first film, the plot point that makes everything else work.

On the plus side, at least we get a cool lightning scene out of this whole thing.
Number of times I've watched the trailer: 18.

My pet peeve: people who refer to complete strangers by their first name. The correct ways to refer to a "John Smith" whom you have never met are Smith, Mr Smith, or John Smith. Not "John". He's not your buddy.
  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
jeremykuan
User avatar
Dragon Egg

Well I’ve never thought of Hiccup or Toothless as the traditional superhero, the movies simply don’t strike me as that type of narrative. In that sense, Hiccup and Toothless’ physical strengths and weakness aren’t as important to me. As I see it, the movies have never been about their physical skill set. Echoing what Dean says, I believe the codependency that we see in the movie is a reflection of where they are in their lives a that point. We see both Hiccup and Toothless as outcasts who are longing for companionship and a sense of belonging. As both of them have overcome those character flaws and come into their own as leaders, the new tail symbolises the need for the codependency, forcing Hiccup and Toothless to re-evaluate their relationship. This doesn’t mean that they no longer have weaknesses. What Dean is trying to do in this movie, is precisely to ask the question, now that Toothless doesn’t need me anymore, does he still have a place in my life? To be stuck in the same narrative over and over again where they seemingly fix all their problems and come out victorious yet again is boring. This is Dean’s way of saying: Hiccup has solved all his problems. He’s truly come out victorious. But what does that mean? Where does Hiccup go from here? As Dean said, wonder and emotion have always been the centrepiece of the movies. Who wants to see yet another hero win a battle simply by injecting more willpower and making that constipated face? That’s what Marvel and DC movies are for XD
"There were dragons...when I was a boy. Where they went, only a few know. Our story changed the world forever.”

-Hiccup Horrendous Haddock III

  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Cartoon Freak
User avatar
Deadly Nadder

1. The thing is that, once you add a physical threat (which this movie has in the form of Grimmel), the characters' physical skill sets become very relevant. And if you're removing a physical weakness, their victory suddenly becomes a lot easier. Easier victories simply aren't as interesting as the ones the characters have to struggle for. Yes, there is another dimension to the story, of course, and the new tail fin kind of works from a thematic perspective.

But we're still left with the problem of relatability. Removing any weakness that easily simply doesn't ring true, whether it's a physical or psychological one. Part of this comes down to film being a visual medium, so the physical weakness is obviously going to be a huge focus because it's easier to show.

2. Obviously, you don't want every story about a character to revolve around the exact same flaw, whether it be physical or psychological. But to use the Superman analogy (because everyone understands it, not because it's a perfect match), there's a difference between telling Superman stories that don't involve Kryptonite, and simply making him no longer vulnerable to Kryptonite. The first is good variety in storytelling, the second is a cheap twist that removes a large part of what made the character work in the first place. It's a similar thing here.

As a rare positive thing I'll say about HTTYD 2, it got that balance right. Toothless' physical disability is still there, as present as ever, with only minor workarounds, but it's not the focus for either him or Hiccup.
Number of times I've watched the trailer: 18.

My pet peeve: people who refer to complete strangers by their first name. The correct ways to refer to a "John Smith" whom you have never met are Smith, Mr Smith, or John Smith. Not "John". He's not your buddy.
  PM (offline)     Profile     Quote  
 
Users browsing this forum:
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
Print view
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · How to Train Your Dragon 3 · Next Topic »
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4