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The flaws of the hidden world
Topic Started: 20 Jul 2020, 10:07 (294 Views)
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Dragon Egg

The below is a list of official comments and statements made by Dean about Hiccup and toothless. None of them make sense or do justice to the friendship between hiccup and toothless. None of them represent what we have been told prior:
- That toothless loves hiccup the most
- That they are best friends
- That Toothless cares deeply for hiccup (vice versa)

Yeah. And then of course it all starts to fall apart. So, we wanted a moment of cool for Hiccup to be reintroduced to the audience along with Toothless and then to have it all start to go haywire with the arrival of everyone else. The idea was we wanted to present this gang of dragon rescuers, that have all been trained under Valka to do that sort of vigilante work of rescuing dragons, but to all show that they're far too reliant on their own dragons for their success and they haven't really come to rely upon one another yet. It is a little bit of journey that have through the story of becoming a better team together and not so dependent on their dragons in every situation.

It’s meant to be symbotic (a two way relationship). It IS, Hiccup is saving dragons, then at the end toothless comes and saves hiccup. See? Dean disregarding the themes of 1 and 2

Dean DeBlois: So this opening sequence was actually designed to do a couple of things. We wanted to establish our heroes quickly for those might have been unfamiliar with the previous films or TV series

They wanted to disregard the other films in other words. THW is part of a trilogy, it’s not a standalone film. It doesn’t fit with the trilogy.

Dean DeBlois: Now of course we wanted to have our iconic fly into the village with the this is Berk speech and really use this moment to establish how far gone they are as a dragon-viking utopia. It's on the brink of collapse. It's absolutely overpopulated, and we wanted it to be fun and chaotic. No one is really complaining about it except for maybe Gobber but it should look unsustainable, it should look like they can't handle these numbers and they're going to have to make a change in some way. So part of Hiccup's problem in this story is that he is in denial about it. He's achieved his dream, here it is Vikings and dragons living together, the largest commune on the planet and at the same time it's gonna fall apart very soon

No one is complaining, says Dean. Except Dean is. He wants it to fall apart.

another's presence. We want to get the sense that Hiccup is unaware that Astrid is his true (sorry- what) support and his future, cause every thing that Hiccup has achieved so far is largely credited to his bond with Toothless. Before that, Hiccup was kind of in the way all the time, he couldn't do anything right and his relationship with Toothless is what changed everything for him. Now he's respected, he's powerful, he's a leader and I think Hiccup's deep sense of insecurity is that should Toothless ever go away he would be reduced to that unworthy character he saw himself as in the first film of the trilogy. And this really where we introduce that problem, that challenge for Hiccup, is that Toothless comes upon this rare and elusive variation of his species, rather innocently in the woods. He doesn't quite realize at the moment that this is part of a trap and she does try to warn him right away. But the idea is that she is the engine of change. She's brought into the story in a nefarious way by Grimmel but her interaction with Toothless is pure and his fascination with her is met with her curiosity about him, though going forward they're drawn together and we soon learn through Grimmel that Furies mate for life. So it's a bond that neither one of them can really fight and Hiccup, who is at first very enthusiastic about Toothless finding a mate, is going to have to come to realize that Toothless having a mate means Toothless will be drawn back into the wild eventually.

Dean DeBlois: The look is very much tied to the story ??? of making it appear that dragons once roamed this world, our world, and this is the story of when they existed and ultimately when they went away

He says HTTYD is set in our world. From what I know new berk or old berk doesn’t exist today.

Brad Lewis: The other thing we talked about is there's demarcation point here. This is as confident as we have seen Hiccup to this point in time as a leader and he's got Toothless by his side and sort of
little do we know that after this scene he loses Toothless and then he also loses his confidence. That is visually, symbolically important as well to the story that Toothless is at his side.

He doesn’t lose toothless. We have evidence for that. Also- demarcation means cutting off a boundary; Dean is saying from that scene in the great hall before they leave berk is the cut off point for hiccup and toothless.

Dean DeBlois: And also in just a comedic way goes to express the dilemma here. Hiccup is learning very quickly that he's not part of this equation and if Toothless is to establish a relationship with the Light Fury and her join their flock, he's going to have to do it on his own because Hiccup is unwelcome in the Light Fury's world. She's quick to get rid of him, which is kind of embarrassing and humbling for him the Viking who's taught everyone how to interact with dragons and seemingly can tame even the most wild and aggressive of dragons.

It’s almost as if getting rid of hiccup is a good thing. It’s not.

We thought it would be so fun to have Light Fury who was of the dragon world, she's actually of the Hidden World, she know the dragon ways and she is very distrusting of humans, so she hasn't been corrupted at all

So... hiccup corrupted toothless. What. They are best buddies. Not ONCE does toothless ever even imply this.

Dean DeBlois: Some beautiful animation here with Fabio Lingini. I love how natural and relatable Hiccup is with his worry. He's immediately casting doubt on the Light Fury. His anxiety over being the third wheel in this relationship is coming through here

The term third wheel refers to someone who is superfluous
- superfluous means unneeded, unnecessary

What is a third wheel in a relationship?
A third wheel is where a person is attached to one or both parties within a relationship. Though the two would probably prefer privacy, the third person seems to interject themselves between them.

third wheel (plural third wheels) (idiomatic) A person or thing that serves no useful purpose

I’m sorry, but this is idiotic. Hiccup being considered as worthless by Toothless, toothless thinks of hiccup as unneeded waste and junk? Undoing COMPLETELY the past two films.
Undoing their friendship.

Dean DeBlois: It was much longer but we realized we were explaining to the audience what they had already seen. And so we cut it short and really just wanted to set up a test for Hiccup. Now that Toothless is nowhere to be found Hiccup has to make a tough decision as a leader and we wanted this sequence to be an exciting and gripping depiction of Hiccup's plan without Toothless and how badly it goes awry. It's meant to be confirmation for Hiccup that ultimately that he can not lead without Toothless.

See? He can’t lead without toothless because TOOTHLESS made hiccup into who he is today, and vice versa.

Dean DeBlois: It's a nice balance and that was the challenge of the awe inspiring and turn it into something that is sad through Hiccup's eyes because he sees that Toothless has found his place and he is no longer needed here and before we can leave it on a downer there's this ??? escape facilitated by Toothless.

Dean DeBlois: So of the six flashbacks this second one was the most poignant and the least on the nose in a way. We had some other flashbacks that were maybe a little to relevant to what was going on in the present but this is thematically what the movie's all about. This idea with love comes loss and that it's part of the deal. It's true of life and it's being depicted in our story. It's ultimately, I think, the truth that Hiccup comes to accept and embrace by the end of the movie and with that comes a certain amount of joy. It's part of life moving on.

Anti hiccup and toothless. Anti EVERYTHING we’ve been told in the past movies.

Brad Lewis: One of the things that I loved that, Dean, you tackled in this it's a mature idea. It's a very mature idea to put into a movie to say if you love something then you're going to have to, there's loss and you consider letting go of it might be the right thing, the thing you don't really want. It's a beautiful concept.

Dean DeBlois: That's counter intuitive but it's ultimately selfless and it's harder to switch mode. You need someone.

Hiccup needs toothless and vice versa. We saw toothless and how he was clearly depressed in homecoming. Toothless doesn’t belong in the Hidden world. He belongs with Hiccup.

Dean DeBlois: I like this moment because, Hiccup, in past versions of the script I had written him to be a lot more selfish and it was pretty unlikable. He came back having declared his presence in the Hidden World commanding Toothless to come to him, dragging him back and everyone else was calling him out on it and it was just a low moment for Hiccup where he certainly wasn't being heroic but I thought the intention was to have this be his dark moment of ultimately being really selfish and that causes Toothless' capture but in refining it through the help of the team and screenings we had we came to realize that having him realize that he didn't belong in the Hidden World and that Toothless clearly did, that was actually enough because the Light Fury appearance caused him to regress really rapidly. He was reaching a moment of selflessness and then when the Light Fury appeared he thought, "Oh, great. I don't have to go there. We can't all be together, he can have his cake and eat it too." That's right on the heels of Grimmel's attack. So ultimately it still does the same function, it just leaves Hiccup feeling responsible for Toothless' capture and it drives him toward his third act epiphany, that he needs to do something, that he kind of needs to lay it all out, get Toothless back and reverse what he's done.

Hiccups selfishness, WORRY over his best friend means it’s all his fault. Hiccup wasn’t being selfish here. What????
See? No regard for 1 and 2

Dean DeBlois: The dragon animation here is just beautiful, I think. There's so much being communicated. We know that Toothless has a great loyalty to Hiccup but he also knows that he doesn't belong there anymore, that there's something awaiting him in the distance and so when he looks out to that horizon and back to Hiccup he's really saying it's time and Hiccup understands. He's been with Toothless for so long that he knows what the look means and I think what's being communicated even though Hiccup is speaking is largely understood between Toothless and Hiccup. I think the other dragons might be a little confused as to what's going on, all having their saddles removed. Essentially, I think our central cast, they all understand what's happening and if Hiccup's going to go through with it they in solidarity are going to let go as well. When it was all building up to the moment of that hand coming away from Toothless' muzzle, we wanted to repeat that in reverse. So it was such an iconic moment from the first movie and it seemed like a nice bookend to be able to say goodbye that way. So had hats off the Dean Stockner and the team that handled Toothless. I think there's just some really gorgeous stuff here.

Brad Lewis: And honestly, that tear is an artful tear. We sort of- it's not the main focus of the shot and as soon as you realize it, the tears rolling down his face, you realize it's sort of happening. It's a beautiful, I think, choice how to play that.

No comment.

Dean DeBlois: Yeah. That was the great challenge in all of this. We recognized that our fans really like Toothless and Hiccup together, and the other characters with their dragons, so how were we going to tell a story in which the dragons go away at the end and not have those fans hate us for it. Hopefully, we've accomplished that. Hopefully we've taken the audience on a journey where they understand that this was ultimately the only solution and right solution and that Hiccup's sacrifice is inspiring. That was the idea. Really it all comes down to the ultimate inspiration behind all of this was meeting Cressida Cowell toward the end of the making of the first movie and she said that her last book was going to tackle the disappearance of dragons and why they aren't here anymore. I thought that was really gripping and emotional, so even though the narratives are quite different between the films and the books, I thought it was a worthy goal for the end of the movie to suggest a time which dragons roamed this world and that they had disappeared and their were abouts is a mystery. I really loved the idea of adding to that opening line of Cressida's first book which is Hiccup as an older man reflecting back on his youth and the line is "There were dragons when I was a boy". I thought that was quite stirring and so that was the goal of the end of this movie and this trilogy was to try to take us to that place where he could be reflecting back with fondness. What I had imagined was our group gathered together on a cliff looking out on a horizon that is longer teeming with dragons and over that we would hear those opening lines and that's exactly what we have coming up.


Dean DeBlois: So this sequence also definitely softens the blow of saying goodbye to the dragons to know that they went back there and had one last joy ride with them, were able to have their kids experience what they experienced flying on the backs of the dragons and even a reunion with Astrid and Stormfly. We wanted a bittersweet ending but we didn't want to depress our audience either and I think this really helps kind of leave people feeling hopeful and like they went on a roller coaster of emotions but hopefully coming out in a positive way.

Percentage of ANYTHING pro Hiccup and toothless, anything supporting their relationship (I read the entire commentary)

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Female Winged Wonder

Honestly, Dean just sucks, at this point. Like he got amnesia of what his franchise was before HTTYD3 -_-
"When something looks too perfect, it probably sucks" - Tuffnut

"Sticks and stones may break your bones, but I will break your neck" - Hank the Cowdog
P A T H E T I C ! ! !
:nightfuryegg: :toothless: :nightfuryegg:
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Deadly Nadder

^ This.
Books are like dragons... if we do not believe in them, and read them, they will cease to exist.
How then will we learn the language and understand the stories of the dear dead ghosts of the past?

—Cressida Cowell, How to Fight a Dragon's Fury

𝐖𝐞 𝐜𝐚𝐧 𝐝𝐨 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐬. 𝐘𝐨𝐮 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐦𝐞. 𝐀𝐬 𝐨𝐧𝐞.
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