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The light fury and what she did to hiccup and toothless.

Posted: 21 Jul 2020, 19:09
Firstly i would like to say that idea of hiccup letting toothless go is mere stupidity. The reason? Well, their relationship is a symbiotic one. I mean, it is, and that’s literally grounded in cement. Hiccup, during the indefinite separation [* if you want more information on this read my other articles], says “I forgot about what you needed”. Is this implying, Toothless never needed Hiccup and needed instead the light fury? Well, yes.
Actually- no. Just no. You can’t go and just undo these integral relationships like this. Hiccup and toothless, well we know how close they are. Physically (ie they both need each other to function) and are also complete with one another. The light fury is not a character.
A character has emotions, feelings and understanding towards others in a situation. Instead, she serves as a plot device, shoehorned in to a movie which never needed her. Also, it’s Hiccup who says “you belong there bud... with her... you need her”.
This is the perfect example of misunderstanding, and complications within the friendship between the two. Other characters through the film throw insults at Hiccup, which affect his subconscious mind.


Hiccup: “Am i not enough?”
Tuffnut: “I think thats a no.”

Firstly, whilst on the surface people may say, this is for comedy, it is anything but comedic.
It is insulting to the many thousands of fans, if not hundreds of thousands globally who adore the friendship between hiccup and toothless. Before 3, there was an episode in the Dreamworks Dragons series. In this episode, Astrid said something along the lines of:
“ Toothless is perfectly happy with you... he doesnt need anyone else”

This is true. Its fact. Toothless is perfectly happy with Hiccup. Him finding a dragon in the woods doesn’t mean “he rejects Hiccup”. No. And who was toothless to even know that the real trap here wasnt the trap in the woods... but the light fury herself? She serves to split apart hiccup and toothless.
This is something i am overjoyed at (no, not the idea) but the fact that Toothless realises this at the end of the film? How? Well... toothless doesn’t want to go to the hidden world. He expresses disappointment, and hurt, upset and all other related emotions. Toothless is the mirror image of hiccup, but here he represents Hiccups misunderstanding over what has occurred. Remember, Toothless never expressed that he chose the light fury over hiccup. Thats not toothless or his view. Obviously. That is not the toothless we know and love.
That is other characters, like Astrid and Tuffnut. Toothless in that separation scene, when Hiccup said “...safer than you could be with me”. So, Hiccup thinks toothless will be safer and hence happier with the light fury. Toothless makes a noise in response. Throughout the franchise, toothlesses noises arent just noises. They are coming from a highly intelligent animal. So, what did Toothless say in response to Hiccups statement? He says “no”.
He rejects hiccup. But not hiccup. He rejects this misunderstanding. This complete change in Hiccup. So ultimately, it is TOOTHLESS who is disregarding this nonsense about how he loves the light fury more.. and he has been drawn to the wild. Also, something else.
Hiccup had to tell, literally force toothless away from him. Toothless did not on an impulse just leave. Even at the end, he looked to hiccup before leaving. And he also glared down, at the ground, briefly, before leaving. He isnt happy, and isnt going to be. This is seen in homecoming. According to Dean, toothless has a call of the wild, a desire to be free, to be away from Hiccup. No. He doesn’t. Why? Well, he is seen in homecoming drawing in the sand, miserably, missing his best friend. For expansion on this point, read my other article. Toothless has his partner, according to Dean his destiny, however toothless doesnt think so. Why would toothless be so sad about the fate that was apparently meant for him? Well, he is, and he knows that is not his destiny.

His destiny is with Hiccup. He is seen begging the light fury for permission to go back to his best friend, and also, as seen later in this same scene when he calls the nightlights, is angry. He roars angrily. Not like toothless. Its almost like he doesn’t like this way of life. He doesn’t like his position.
Actually, it isn’t almost. It’s spot on.
And remember, Toothless wasnt there to witness the negativity thrown at hiccup regarding their relationship. What would he say? For one, he would not be impressed. What if somehow, Toothless knew the light fury was there to remove hiccup from the equation? Do you think he would have gone along with it? No.

Re: The light fury and what she did to hiccup and toothless.

Posted: 24 Jul 2020, 05:31
by Dragondog
So in-universe, who would you say is worse in this film, Toothless or the Light Fury?

Personally, I don't hate the Light Fury, as she DID seem to eventually respect the friendship between Hiccup and Toothless (or else she wouldn't have let her children touch them during the epilogue of the film).

Toothless, I actually feel mad at. At any point, he could have stood up for himself. Like if it's that the Light Fury was being too controlling and actually kept him from returning, he could have put his foot down and held on to Hiccup. It seems like he's mad at Hiccup for interfering when he rescues him in the hidden world, but why? Because if he's upset because he thinks Hiccup just ruined his chances with the Light Fury, then Toothless needs to get his priorities straight.

I personally see no reason why he can't have both. Spend time with the Light Fury away from Hiccup so they can be alone and bond? Yes. Spend three days straight away from Hiccup despite knowing he expected his best friend back that evening and then being mad when Hiccup comes looking? No. Spend an entire decade not even thinking about visiting him because reasons? Absolutely not.

I like to think that the scene in Homecoming where she growls at him after seeing the arrow he drew in his picture was because she didn't want him to take the kids visiting Hiccup when they were too young to discriminate between good and bad humans, since she was willing to watch the pageant on Berk later, but since they can't talk, I don't know

Re: The light fury and what she did to hiccup and toothless.

Posted: 24 Jul 2020, 09:27
You see, he didnt want to take his kids to visit Hiccup, he wanted to return to hiccup permanently.
Also, I can disprove everything you just said in a previous post.
Dean said in an interview that the light fury exists to draw toothless away from hiccup.
Why people would support or even like that is beyond me.
Hiccup and toothless are at the core of this franchise and it makes 0 sense to break them up

Re: The light fury and what she did to hiccup and toothless.

Posted: 25 Jul 2020, 03:26
by ToothlessNightFury
Well, considering not all best friends stay together their entire lives, it makes a lot of sense.

It's all about growing and learning to let go. Yes it could've been done in better ways, but fact is I don't spend every day with my best friend. We live in different cities.

They could have done it that Hiccup and Toothless see each other more often but fact is best frienda don't always stay together like that.

It's a sad part of growing up.

Plus, it's a movie so it's not real...

Re: The light fury and what she did to hiccup and toothless.

Posted: 25 Jul 2020, 03:36
by Dragondog
Maybe I didn't clarify this enough, and for that I apologize. I'm autistic, so things don't always come out the way I intend them, so again, I'm sorry about that. I was giving my own interpretation of the scene when I saw it, not trying to undermine yours.

From what I've seen, some people think that Toothless was saying he wanted to visit Hiccup, some say he was just drawing the arrow to visually tell the story about him and Hiccup to the kids, and then there's your interpretation. I was trying to give an explanation about the Light Fury's behavior in that scene more than anything.

And I was talking about the Light Fury from an in-universe perspective, not trying to justify Dean's reasoning behind her existence. I'm saying that in-universe, she's not necessarily evil or a bad dragon. Toothless always had the power to say no to whatever she expected of him. At no point was he forced by her into anything (although now that they're official mates and have kids of their own, it's much harder to just "up and leave" anytime he wants, unless he wants to be a deadbeat dad and leader, meaning he should probably have laid down the rules of how things were going to be before making her his queen, and found a way to keep both relationships intact, so he wasn't ditching Hiccup like he ended up doing). I just feel like Toothless could have kept Hiccup and still had a mate, if he had actually tried instead of basically being a "slave to his instincts", which real animals aren't even subject to (much less a character who's much more than "just an animal")

Re: The light fury and what she did to hiccup and toothless.

Posted: 25 Jul 2020, 10:54
I get your points. Currently im also separated from my own best friend, most likely indefinitely, as he is moving schools. However, this is a film, and I am sure that there are loads of people out there like me who would agree with my opinion. In fact, the majority vote in favour of my opinion as I have conducted polls on this same matter and the results were largely in my favour. Most people do not want to think hiccup and toothless remain apart or anything, and whilst i am not discrediting both of you, you are in the minority when it comes to whether hicctooth stay together.

Re: The light fury and what she did to hiccup and toothless.

Posted: 25 Jul 2020, 11:03
Also, there are interviews with people like Jay baruchel you can find online which say that hiccup is incomplete without toothless. The mere notion of separating these two characters is abhorrent, it is wrong, and Dean did it with the worst intentions. The light fury exists to draw toothless back into the wild. Toothless has made it clear several times he belongs with hiccup, and there is an episode in riders of berk where Astrid herself says toothless doesn’t need anyone else, but hiccup. He would never let anyone or anything come between him and hiccup.

Re: The light fury and what she did to hiccup and toothless.

Posted: 25 Jul 2020, 17:21
by Dragondog
Honestly, the worst thing Dean's ever said is the interview where he claims Hiccup and Toothless never saw each other again after the epilogue. It's like he made the whole thing just to ruin it later.

I miss NightFury2001, she HATES HTTYD3, because of everything you've described :P

Re: The light fury and what she did to hiccup and toothless.

Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 15:27
by ToothlessNightFury
I never said they stayed apart You can be friends with someone, work with them etc and not live with them, I have been the same age as Hiccup for all of these movies, of course I want them to stay together and I think they should have, The light fury could've even stayed on Berk took,

so please, don't put words I didn't say into my mouth. That's not right, and telling me I'm in the minority of those who agree with Dean? Never once did I say I agree with him. I just simply stated that it's a fact of life we can't always be together with the ones we love, but that doesn't mean we stop seeing each other.

Persnally I like to think that the Dragons and Vikings make frequent visits to each other like this and while I don't want a 4th movie (because 4th movies always ruin a good series ex Shrek 4 was not needed,) I do like to think one day it was safe enough for them to all be together again one day. But that's not where the story ends in the movie, nor the Original Books.

The other thing to remember is these are based off the HTTYD books that are much older than the movies, and in the Books the dragons do not live with the vikings for ever. The very last book as them talk of going their separate ways even though Book Toothless had said many times he'd never leave Hiccup, in the end it hinted that he was getting closer and closer to leaving, hence the "There were Dragons when I was a boy" line which also came from the books.

The premise of the books was to explain why dragons are no longer around today. As stated by Cressida Cowell the author of the original books, which again, the movies were based off of. One way or another it was going to follow that same plot line, that eventually the dragons went into hiding for their protection.

Again, that doesn't mean I want Hiccup and Toothless to stay apart, nor do I like to think they do, but that doesn't mean they have to live together for the rest of their lives either, and personally, the idea of them living separate and still seeing each other often is good for me and many others.

Re: The light fury and what she did to hiccup and toothless.

Posted: 09 Oct 2020, 01:40
by PrimevalYautja
So what? Are we not allowed or are we dumb or wrong to defend and love the light fury and httyd 3?