- Puff
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Dragons in the movies have souls, they're independent, whereas in the TV series they're merely pets. I see dragons in HTTYD as an entire civilization living alongside humans, a complex society with its precise structure and hierarchy, with rivalry, politics and intrigues between them just like in the human civilization, maybe just in a different way. Anyway, I digress.
First off thank you for going more in depth, it's always nice to read others thoughts and view points. With that said there are some things I'll disagree with you own but that does come down more to subjective opinion on how we both view things, which is perfectly fine. One thing I will agree with you on(to a degree) is that compared to the first movie(at least), yes the dragons in the TV series were more relegated to the background. I would say that this is something that has improved as the series has went on. Maybe not to the degree that some would like, but there's definitely a marked improvement between RoB and RTTE in terms of the dragons being more involved.
At the same time though I've said in the past that I have an issue with this statement(and still do). Usually when people say "the dragons in the show are to pet like" their referring to Toothless from the first movie. The only dragon the first movie really went in depth on. Even in the second movie they only really focused on Toothless and to smaller degrees Cloudjumper and Stormfly the rest were fairly one note or background very much like the show.(Their riders were as well but this is excusable somewhat since it is a movie.) The second movie also went as far as to have Eret inadvertently play fetch with Stormfly a fairly pet like thing to do. Contrast that with the show dealing with not one but at the very least 5/6 dragons and 6 riders, and giving character and depth to each one it's a lot more to juggle and get right. While I'll definitely stand with you in saying I want the dragons to have more depth and be more in the forefront than what they are in the show, and I do think the show is capable of doing so. I also understand why it's hard for the show to do that to the degree the first movie did it, and do that all the time with multiple dragons.
Now all of those were pretty much reasons why I understand the series can't show the dragons to the degree the first movie does with Toothless, like some people would want. I honestly do believe though that it was the show that started to show the dragons as having quite a bit of social complexity. The idea of rivalries the movie didn't start that the show did. Another good reason that the dragons felt more pet like in RoB was because the theme of that season was integrating the dragons more and more into the vikings culture and daily lives. I always bring this up but read this
http://forums.berksgrapevine.com/topic/10194252/2/ it's certainly mostly about Mildew but it also goes over to a degree my viewpoint of the theme of RoB. Which I do feel gives some explanation as to why the dragons felt the way the way they did in that first season. Now whether or not you consider all of that an argument in the shows favor is ultimately up to you.
I would also add the idea that RTTE was billed as being about the exploration of and closer look into the dragons, and Hiccups journey to becoming much more aquainted with the dragons and being able to deal with and handle them better. Allowing him to better integrate them into the vikings society and show the vikings how they can work together. Granted I do feel RTTE has lost that theme/plot point to a degree here. With that said even though I do feel it has gotten better through each season it still doesn't excuse the dragons relegation to being more background than foreground. It's more so an explanation as to why I feel that "the dragons are to pet like" isn't as bad as some say it is, and why I feel that it's a somewhat unfounded and unfair comparison, not wrong since I do agree with the sentiment and the idea just not tot the degree others purport.
Now about the idea of the dragons being a civilization with a complex society. It's an interesting viewpoint one I've not thought of personally and something I'll keep an eye out for things that work with it. Though with that said it's not one that I currently agree with personally. I feel that mostly comes down to a difference in opinion and how we each view the dragons, and possibly a more stricter look at the definition of the word civilization, but neither idea/viewpoint is really wrong. While I do view the dragons as complex creatures, and I do think the movie puts them forward as more complex than their given credit for(by the vikings). I don't think they are as complex as you view them, more complex than your average animal certainly, but not establishing a civilization level of complex.
As I said though I do feel this a difference in opinion/viewpoint. Neither are wrong while I love to talk about them probably to much
I feel I've already went to far off topic, again though thank you for sharing it.
- Puff
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I feel that the TV series should focus more on exploring these structures in the dragon world, and also focus on how humans and dragons try to find a balance in coexistence; how they should try to overcome threats like the dragon hunters together, as two civilizations/societies. That's what would bring purpose to Hiccup's (and Toothless') growth, to prove that coexistence with dragons can help both sides overcome existential problems. Hiccup has already shown that it is possible to be friendly (or not enemies) with dragons. Now he has to prove that alliance with dragons really is an alternative to the old ways, that it can really work in the long run. That's the struggle I'd really love to see in the series; along with more Hiccstrid
, but it's probably too much to ask.
Anyway, that's roughly how I see things.
On this, I'll start off with saying I wouldn't mind seeing this myself either, it would be quite an interesting show premise to say the least. I will add though, that with your viewpoint on the dragons being a fairly complex civilization themselves. It would make sense for certain dragons to ally up with certain dragon hunters or other villains(not referring to any villains we've seen within the show) for varying reasons. Not least of which would be the idea that not all dragons are willing to see reason, just like certain humans wouldn't either. It would also mean you'd see dragons as villains with grudges against humanity and would want to see them hunted to, as well as having other reasons to be against humans. Showing that from the dragons perspective through animation alone and never having the dragons talk(at least in a language we can understand) would be quite interesting to see.
Again thank you for going into depth.