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| Couple questions I have. | |
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| Topic Started: 06 Mar 2016, 00:28 (2280 Views) | |
| Mastermiine | 06 Mar 2016, 00:28 Post #1 |
Dragon Egg
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I have a couple questions, we'll not really things you can answer but more for discussion. My questions are very similar to each other so maybe we can get into a discussion. So first of all, why don't they give any of the villains dragons to ride? Like why do they have to hunt and kill them. Why can't Dagur a skrill to ride, or Ryker the Snow Wraith. I think it would up the stakes if the dragons where ridden by the villains and the dragons where loyal to them. It would give more layers for Hiccup and the others. They can't hurt the dragons, and they can't just free them. Lastly, why is it that when some one from berk. (like a minor character) gets a dragon, it always is one of the main 4. (nightmare, gronckle, nadder, zippleback). How come people can't get a new dragon, or a dragon we already have seen. Like Thunderdrum, or what not. Lets discuss! |
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| Demonwolf002 | 06 Mar 2016, 01:39 Post #2 |
Lone Dragon
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This one is interesting and something I agree with as well(I would say Drago with the movies had a bit of this problem as well). I would love to see this, as you said it would add more depth and complexity to those villains, and not just that it would also add more depth and complexity to Hiccup and the rest of the riders as they figure out how to deal and cope with a threat like that. To answer the question though, without being apart of the writing process there's no real way to tell why the writers have chosen not explore this idea. For the show it could just be a matter of time or money constraints so it's deemed not worth doing. My personal opinion though and one that's much more cynical, is that whether the writers want to write villains like that or not. Higher ups may tell them no since the show is aimed at a younger audience, and they fear that those younger kids may not be able to differentiate a villain being that relatable to the riders. Now if you want to be technical about things though you could say the show has explored this to a degree with Heather having Windshear and being against the riders, but she was "undercover" so to speak, so kind of defeats the purpose. You could also look at the episode Edge of Disaster.(kind of part 1 but mostly part 2) Where you had a few of the riders dealing with dragons who had been wounded and tortured by the dragon hunters perceiving all humans as bad. And we saw a little of Hiccup learning how to gain/regain a tortured dragons trust through other methods. Again though it's still not an outright villain who is perceived to be evil by the riders but also rides a dragon of their own. There is also the idea the second movie was originally going to go with which would have had Valka as the villain and not Drago. We even saw some storyboards released of that to. Which personally to me even though I enjoyed the HTTYD2 we got, I would have loved to have seen that film more. All these though are just examples though of the show and the movie trying to touch on this idea but never going to depth I'm sure many of us would want it to. But honestly you could probably come up with quite a few reasons as to why this hasn't been done in and out of the HTTYD universe. But without being apart of that writing and production process it's really hard to say anything concrete. And who knows while the show may not cover these things that doesn't mean the franchise as a whole can't. The graphic novel that DeBlois and Hamilton are working on may even have something like this itself. So we'll just have to wait and see if HTTYD decides to branch out it's villains more than what it has already as time goes on. |
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See you in the skies Dragon Rider! The Dragon Root:Thing what I wrote. Is Toothless Evil? :Me possibly being crazy, but fun. The BerkCast The HTTYD podcast, you should listen. | |
| Puff | 06 Mar 2016, 04:43 Post #3 |
Keep smiling.
:)
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Dragon hunters riding dragons doesn't really make sense. Even Heather shouldn't have one, but that's probably just me. |
Blender is my  (my CGI thread)If you need anything, feel free to PM me | |
| Demonwolf002 | 06 Mar 2016, 13:18 Post #4 |
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Lone Dragon
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While I'll agree that the current villains (e.g. Viggo, Ryker, and Dagur) shouldn't be riding dragons, since I do feel it works better for their characters currently. But all dragon hunters(or any new villains whether they be a hunter or not in the future) not having or riding dragons I feel defeats the purpose of growth for Hiccup and the rest of the riders. If you're inclined I'd love to see you go more in depth on this opinion, and your thoughts on it. |
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See you in the skies Dragon Rider! The Dragon Root:Thing what I wrote. Is Toothless Evil? :Me possibly being crazy, but fun. The BerkCast The HTTYD podcast, you should listen. | |
| Puff | 06 Mar 2016, 17:07 Post #5 |
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Keep smiling.
:)
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The whole way how the plot in the TV series is presented is a bit unfortunate. Hiccup's growth purpose as a dragon rider feels defeated because the show with dragons in its name isn't really about the dragons. Not the way it should be anyway. Dragons in the movies have souls, they're independent, whereas in the TV series they're merely pets. I see dragons in HTTYD as an entire civilization living alongside humans, a complex society with its precise structure and hierarchy, with rivalry, politics and intrigues between them just like in the human civilization, maybe just in a different way. Anyway, I digress. I feel that the TV series should focus more on exploring these structures in the dragon world, and also focus on how humans and dragons try to find a balance in coexistence; how they should try to overcome threats like the dragon hunters together, as two civilizations/societies. That's what would bring purpose to Hiccup's (and Toothless') growth, to prove that coexistence with dragons can help both sides overcome existential problems. Hiccup has already shown that it is possible to be friendly (or not enemies) with dragons. Now he has to prove that alliance with dragons really is an alternative to the old ways, that it can really work in the long run. That's the struggle I'd really love to see in the series; along with more Hiccstrid  , but it's probably too much to ask.Anyway, that's roughly how I see things. 
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Blender is my (my CGI thread) If you need anything, feel free to PM me | |
| Demonwolf002 | 07 Mar 2016, 02:14 Post #6 |
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Lone Dragon
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First off thank you for going more in depth, it's always nice to read others thoughts and view points. With that said there are some things I'll disagree with you own but that does come down more to subjective opinion on how we both view things, which is perfectly fine. One thing I will agree with you on(to a degree) is that compared to the first movie(at least), yes the dragons in the TV series were more relegated to the background. I would say that this is something that has improved as the series has went on. Maybe not to the degree that some would like, but there's definitely a marked improvement between RoB and RTTE in terms of the dragons being more involved. At the same time though I've said in the past that I have an issue with this statement(and still do). Usually when people say "the dragons in the show are to pet like" their referring to Toothless from the first movie. The only dragon the first movie really went in depth on. Even in the second movie they only really focused on Toothless and to smaller degrees Cloudjumper and Stormfly the rest were fairly one note or background very much like the show.(Their riders were as well but this is excusable somewhat since it is a movie.) The second movie also went as far as to have Eret inadvertently play fetch with Stormfly a fairly pet like thing to do. Contrast that with the show dealing with not one but at the very least 5/6 dragons and 6 riders, and giving character and depth to each one it's a lot more to juggle and get right. While I'll definitely stand with you in saying I want the dragons to have more depth and be more in the forefront than what they are in the show, and I do think the show is capable of doing so. I also understand why it's hard for the show to do that to the degree the first movie did it, and do that all the time with multiple dragons. Now all of those were pretty much reasons why I understand the series can't show the dragons to the degree the first movie does with Toothless, like some people would want. I honestly do believe though that it was the show that started to show the dragons as having quite a bit of social complexity. The idea of rivalries the movie didn't start that the show did. Another good reason that the dragons felt more pet like in RoB was because the theme of that season was integrating the dragons more and more into the vikings culture and daily lives. I always bring this up but read this http://forums.berksgrapevine.com/topic/10194252/2/ it's certainly mostly about Mildew but it also goes over to a degree my viewpoint of the theme of RoB. Which I do feel gives some explanation as to why the dragons felt the way the way they did in that first season. Now whether or not you consider all of that an argument in the shows favor is ultimately up to you. I would also add the idea that RTTE was billed as being about the exploration of and closer look into the dragons, and Hiccups journey to becoming much more aquainted with the dragons and being able to deal with and handle them better. Allowing him to better integrate them into the vikings society and show the vikings how they can work together. Granted I do feel RTTE has lost that theme/plot point to a degree here. With that said even though I do feel it has gotten better through each season it still doesn't excuse the dragons relegation to being more background than foreground. It's more so an explanation as to why I feel that "the dragons are to pet like" isn't as bad as some say it is, and why I feel that it's a somewhat unfounded and unfair comparison, not wrong since I do agree with the sentiment and the idea just not tot the degree others purport. Now about the idea of the dragons being a civilization with a complex society. It's an interesting viewpoint one I've not thought of personally and something I'll keep an eye out for things that work with it. Though with that said it's not one that I currently agree with personally. I feel that mostly comes down to a difference in opinion and how we each view the dragons, and possibly a more stricter look at the definition of the word civilization, but neither idea/viewpoint is really wrong. While I do view the dragons as complex creatures, and I do think the movie puts them forward as more complex than their given credit for(by the vikings). I don't think they are as complex as you view them, more complex than your average animal certainly, but not establishing a civilization level of complex. As I said though I do feel this a difference in opinion/viewpoint. Neither are wrong while I love to talk about them probably to much  I feel I've already went to far off topic, again though thank you for sharing it.
On this, I'll start off with saying I wouldn't mind seeing this myself either, it would be quite an interesting show premise to say the least. I will add though, that with your viewpoint on the dragons being a fairly complex civilization themselves. It would make sense for certain dragons to ally up with certain dragon hunters or other villains(not referring to any villains we've seen within the show) for varying reasons. Not least of which would be the idea that not all dragons are willing to see reason, just like certain humans wouldn't either. It would also mean you'd see dragons as villains with grudges against humanity and would want to see them hunted to, as well as having other reasons to be against humans. Showing that from the dragons perspective through animation alone and never having the dragons talk(at least in a language we can understand) would be quite interesting to see. Again thank you for going into depth.
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See you in the skies Dragon Rider! The Dragon Root:Thing what I wrote. Is Toothless Evil? :Me possibly being crazy, but fun. The BerkCast The HTTYD podcast, you should listen. | |
| Crystallion12 | 08 Mar 2016, 11:27 Post #7 |
Dunno what to say here.....
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Ooh... Got quite the conversation going on here! It's quite late over here, and I want to got to bed, so I'll keep this here short, and maybe I'll elaborate or edit tomorrow. But I just want to say, great work guys! I'm loving all this conversing and sharing! Lovin' it!
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Save the Earth... It's the only planet with donuts! May the stars watch over you, the dragons roar at the sound of your name, and peace, love and the truth enlighten your heart forever, May you stay true to your soul, mind and heart. Your choices, opinions and life are solely your own, give only the ones you hold dear to your heart your heart, and all your word. Make the right choices, and tread carefully, and live your life to its very fullest, Crystallion12. | |
| Puff | 08 Mar 2016, 12:41 Post #8 |
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Keep smiling.
:)
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You're welcome! Maybe I used a wrong word for dragon "civilization". Having looked up the definition on Wikipedia, civilization also takes communication via writing (symbolic communication) into account. Dragons certainly don't have that, at least I'm not aware of it. I don't really remember what was going on in the first two seasons, to be honest. Therefore I'm judging just RTTE which is at least partially in my memory. |
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Blender is my (my CGI thread) If you need anything, feel free to PM me | |
| Mastermiine | 09 Mar 2016, 21:26 Post #9 |
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Dragon Egg
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Been really busy so I had not had time to really contribute to the topic I had created. (irony I know) but Im here with my two sense. So for me, I think it just ads more complex layers to the characters. Like yes they ride the dragons, but they can still get the dragon eye and still get what they want and also use dragons to aid them out. Right now, the method of them as "dragon hunters" wanting to kill all the dragons is just so.. well villain doing villainous stuff because of villainy it gets so old and repetitious. And guaranteed there's got to be dragons with evil motives. So why can't there be evil dragon riders with evil dragons. I don't know. I think I just love seeing dragons come back. Liked named ones, and we can figure out there personality. Like imagine the skrill is in every episode that dagur is in. And it has a name, we see it being ridden, and we figure out new things about its personality every new appearance. Like how cool is that! |
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| Crystallion12 | 11 Mar 2016, 01:22 Post #10 |
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Dunno what to say here.....
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That's dangerously epic. I'd die... .....MAKE IT HAPPEN, DREAMWORKS!!!!!!!!! WE'LL GIVE YOU EXTRA DRAGONIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I'm now officially a Gronckle! Whoo hoo!) |
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Save the Earth... It's the only planet with donuts! May the stars watch over you, the dragons roar at the sound of your name, and peace, love and the truth enlighten your heart forever, May you stay true to your soul, mind and heart. Your choices, opinions and life are solely your own, give only the ones you hold dear to your heart your heart, and all your word. Make the right choices, and tread carefully, and live your life to its very fullest, Crystallion12. | |
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