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Posted: 03 Oct 2017, 19:24
Sucks to be Johann!
Posted: 05 Oct 2017, 03:30
I was wondering what others here though about the fact that the quote "Traitor always dies in the end" is used in RttE, do you think this applies to Johan? Do you think he'll die in the next season?
Personally I can't see it happening, just because I'm sure he'll worm his way out of it and because of the intended audience of the show.
Posted: 05 Oct 2017, 06:45
I kinda mentioned that before.....but everyone kinda ignored it.....
Posted: 05 Oct 2017, 07:46
by Ocean Rose
I'm not sure if he's going to die. But maybe? I don't know. Would the writers really get rid of him? Then again, they did make him evil.
Posted: 06 Oct 2017, 20:47
I'd say there's a decent chance that he'll die, but not necessarily. I'm not overly concerned about Viggo's statement that "the traitor always dies." After all, we've seen more than one character switch sides and they are still happily alive. Viggo may be cunning, but he doesn't know everything.
Johann might be killed off because they want to wrap up all the loose ends quickly. It would be an effective way to end everything. Plus, if he's killed off-screen like the other human deaths in RTTE, it wouldn't affect the ratings.
That said, I'd prefer that they did something other than killing him off. Killing a character you need to deal with is an easy route to take, but there can be better ways to deal with it.
To ramble on about that...
In the comics, Captain America was killed at the end of the Civil War story arc. In the movie, however, he survived. That's because the writers decided that even though it would be harder to wrap everything up, they would like to explore the possibility of reconciliation. The writers of RTTE probably wouldn't explore too much with reconciliation, but they might look at other options instead of killing him and completely ending everything.
I think it'd be neat if the dragon riders stumbled across Johann's boat, adrift at sea. Johann was gone, as were his personal items. Upon investigation, they found his letters detailing his plans, and only then realized that he was a spy. However, it was too late and they didn't know where he went.
Whether he dies, disappears, or is captured, once the dragon riders discover that he's a spy, that could lead to an episode or even a story arc where they are having trouble trusting each other.
It could also be interesting if they never find out. After all, there might be many people in life who are out to hurt us, but we go blissfully unaware. I don't think they will go that direction, but it could be neat.
Posted: 09 Oct 2017, 09:49
In the last one or two episodes when Johann and Heather go out to find Oswald, I honestly thought that they would, towards the end, reveal that Johann is her father. That sounds weird, but would make no less sense than Johann being evil.
Posted: 17 Oct 2017, 01:27
I don't think "The traitor always dies" apples to Johann because, I mean Ryker is dead. I think it applied to Ryker because he did really betray Viggo in a sense. Yet Viggo also betrayed the riders when he threatened Astrid for the dragon eye.
what did I just do. I am confused now.
Posted: 04 Dec 2017, 14:20
I would say we've been looking away from the obvious signs such when he unknowingly brought the smokebreaths to Berk and not to mention if he knew dagur would steal his ship. Plus the timing of the Dragon Hunters first attack on Berk when he came under attack by Scardian and his pack. It might have been obvious that he allowed himself to came under attack by the dragons to make it look good. Who knows what else we've missed since this revelation and want to discover how many things that made him look like a fool but was for some nefarious reason like when he gave mildew the Blue Oleander flowers.
Posted: 03 Jul 2022, 18:17
by Dragonrider's Fury
I've addressed this question before, but I'll address it again for the sake of this thread. My thoughts are thus: I still feel that the whole "Traitor Johann" thing is kinda lame. Like there was a late-night board meeting two-thirds of the way though S5 production and the director was like "Okay, so we need some big twist to ensure people will see the next season," and Bob the overtired intern took a swig of his Mountain Dew and chortled "Pffftt, like what? Making Johann a turncoat? Ba-ha-ha-ha!!!" And the director just looked at him with an equal-parts mix of awe, shock, admiration, and disbelief for about seven seconds, then slammed his hands down on the table and cried "THAT'S IT!!!!!"
In regards to the other question floating around on this thread, I guess
Viggo Edit: Hiccup
knew what he was talking about. The traitor does, always,
die in the end... at least in this universe.
Posted: 18 Nov 2022, 00:54
I agree that the writers probably only began planning for him to be evil at the start of RTTE, since it makes a lot sense for how the series was set up - his ship was conveniently docked by Outcast Island right as Dagur escapes, and he "warned" Hiccup not to check out the Reaper, but made it sound very intriguing so that Hiccup would absolutely go check it out and find the Dragon Eye. In fact, Johann might've even been the one to steal the key for Dagur's escape. However, I don't think he was made to be evil from the very start. He was just this sort of grey-ish, do-whatever-benefits-him-as-a-trader kind of character that allowed him to be the perfect candidate to be a surprise villain when the writers needed one. With that said, it's all so well designed that if one were to argue that he HAD been planned to be evil from the start of RoB, there is plenty of evidence to go off of.
And the part about how "the traitor always dies..." I think in the end it could be interpreted from Hiccup's perspective, in that everyone who betrays Hiccup will die.
*Bonus: In RTTE episode 1, when Dagur threw the door guard to the ground he said, "I hate traitors." That's foreshadowing the theme that the show would later revolve around!