Welcome Guest
[Log In]
[Register]
| Dagur: Character Deep Dive | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: 28 Sep 2023, 03:30 (20768 Views) | |
| Strike Class | 28 Sep 2023, 03:30 Post #1 |
Strike Class
|
Hi everybody! This is my first forum, so let's see where it goes! I think Dagur is a fascinating character, so I'm hoping this can be a place where people can discuss and analyze him on deep levels. From theories about his past to him admitting to having existential crises, I can't wait to see where this goes. As a warning to any new fans, this will definitely be a spoiler zone. This one is a post I made originally in the Dragon Chat, but I had the recommendation to move it here so that it wouldn't be lost. There's something that I've been thinking about for a little while now about DoB and I'm wondering if I'm alone in this or not. I don't like that Dagur got sentenced (I'm assuming to life since they never said when he'd get out) on Outcast Island. Now, I can admit that he attacked Berk and went against their treaty, so I understand why he would get arrested. He probably would have tried to kill everyone until he got back at Hiccup for lying, so I'm not going to pretend like him getting sent to prison wasn't a smart move on their part. That said, he broke the treaty with BERK, not Outcast Island. I could actually go further into why I can understand why he'd attack Berk too, but I'll try to stay on topic and handle one thing at a time. Gobber said that Alvin had been their longest and most feared enemy, so he'd already been their foe for a much longer time than Dagur had. If we go into what Dagur actually did to Alvin, it's not much. They had a deal with working together. Alvin wanted the information about the Skrill and to use it to take Berk for himself. Dagur just wanted the Skrill. They both planned on going against that deal. Alvin was going to kill Dagur and his Berserkers, and Dagur supposedly was going to kill him too. I say supposedly since he had the chance, but he actually took the merciful route. It's almost crazy to think of Dagur back then choosing a peaceful option, but he did. With the Skrill, he could have immediately attacked and killed Alvin. Heck, with his armada, he could have wiped out all the Outcasts as soon as he found the Skrill there, but he didn't. He just left. Alvin, however, did not take the peaceful route. He tracked him down, threatened to kill him, and then attacked. At that point to me, Dagur didn't so much try to kill Alvin and instead was acting in self-defense since Alvin undoubtedly would have killed him in that fight if he got the chance. The sad thing is that the Berkians probably don't even know what happened. Hiccup just saw the deal and then the two of them fighting. I think only the vikings directly involved know that Alvin was going to kill the Berserkers even after Dagur helped him both with the Skrill and with the numbers of his armada, yet Dagur's made to look like the bad one who broke the agreement. How is that fair? If Dagur had to go to jail, he should've been arrested on Berk. I think it's actually a cruel thing to say, "Oh, you know this enemy we've had for YEARS? You do? You had a falling out? Well, now that he hates you more than he hates us, we're going to just give you to him for the rest of your life. Hopefully, he won't torture you to death or anything." Judging by the fact that Dagur has the most gruesome scar of any HTTYD character (I mean seriously. It couldn't have been made in any less than 4 sword slashes. I counted because I'm way too big of a Dagur fan, but here we are), I think that torturing definitely did happen. Dagur's not completely fearless or anything, but it's not often that we do see him scared and he was at the end of "Cast Out." It makes sense that he was! I'd be scared to death in his circumstance. It's played as a good thing because he's gone against the Berkians, but let's consider a different perspective for a moment. He's not just a lunatic from Berserker Island who broke the treaty. He was also a mentally ill teenager who'd been bullied for being different, just gained the responsibility of leading 50,000+ vikings since his dad upped and left without telling anyone, found out a neighboring tribe was keeping what he thought was a dragon army which could have probably destroyed his armada, and was about to be subjected to Thor knows what types of torment at the hands at the someone who'd earned the name Treacherous. |
| Dragonrider's Fury | 28 Sep 2023, 21:38 Post #2 |
Skrill
|
The thing with Outcast Island is, it's kind of Berk's "federal prison", and has been ever since Alvin was first banished there. Now that Alvin has his own tribe and is allied with Berk again, it rather makes sense (at least, to me) that the island would continue to serve that purpose with him and the other Outcasts basically acting as wardens. 
|
Team Pathetic Banner   
Awesome Secret Odin 2019 GIFt set from Inhonoredglory. Thanks a ton! :-D
| |
| Strike Class | 28 Sep 2023, 23:11 Post #3 |
|
Strike Class
|
@Dragonrider's Fury Ah, I didn't think about it like that, but you're right. With all the bad ones from Berk being banished and going there, it did sort of become that. While I can definitely see your point with Outcast Island naturally becoming more of an official prison for Berk now, I feel like that was actually a really bad plan on Berk's part originally to not just have their own prison. It would be like if someone in Maryland committed murder, then got exiled and went to New York. It really doesn't fix much besides making sure the Maryland people are safe until that criminal comes back to go after the people who did the banishing. What's extra strange is that Stoick never seemed the merciful type to me pre-Hiccup training Toothless, so I wonder why he wouldn't have been the one to start that with some of the other rogue Berkians even if he didn't kill Alvin per se since they used to be friends. Also, what do you think a reunion between Dagur and Alvin would have been like? I really wanted to see that. Honestly, I desperately wanted to see him interact with Stoick and Gobber too in the later seasons since I'd love to have seen him try to apologize and make amends |
| Strike Class | 28 Sep 2023, 23:27 Post #4 |
|
Strike Class
|
Below is something I worked on because I got very curious and probably had too much time on my hands one Saturday. After going through the latest version of the DSM, I did my best to give Dagur a psychological evaluation, so for fun and because I don't really know where else this could be brought up, here it is: Quick note since I had no clue what this meant, when a disorder is called “unspecified” or “other specified,” that means that some of the symptoms are exhibited in statistically significant ways, but the criteria is not fully met. Their only difference is that the therapist said which symptoms are not shown and which are, respectively. For Dagur, he has other specified ADHD since he does have symptoms of inattention with not being able to sustain attention on one thing for a while (shown in earlier seasons with him getting bored/impatient in a matter of a few seconds and the finale with him being bored on Berserker Island since there was nothing to do). He does not qualify for the full criteria of having 6 + symptoms such as forgetting what he is doing, losing items, or avoiding tasks which make him have to focus for a while. He also lacks the criteria for hyperactivity, including fidgeting, etc., but it could be argued that young Dagur was bad at waiting his turn. He also has the disorders commonly associated with ADHD like oppositional defiant disorder and conduct disorder. The former involves ongoing anger, arguing, defiance, and irritability towards parents/authority figures. The latter is characterized by having a difficult time following rules and behaving in socially acceptable ways. Those affected might become bullies or hurt animals (the former of which I think he was inadvertently being towards Hiccup when they were kids and the latter of which he very intentionally was doing with dragons). Disruptive mood dysregulation disorder due to not having his severe, recurrent temper outbursts be explained by manic or hypomanic episodes associated with bipolar disorders. These outbursts are for most of the day, nearly every day, and observable. PTSD with his experiences in jail and trouble sleeping with nightmares (one at least shown the only time he was shown sleeping. Could also explain the bags under his eyes not seen on most of the other characters). Other symptoms include avoiding the distressful situation (he dismissed the nightmare immediately afterwards), distrusting others since he used to only trust himself, blaming others like those on his revenge list he tattooed to his arm, and being in a persistent negative emotional state. He engages in verbal/physical reactions of violence with little provocation, can be reckless, and probably has sleep disturbances. Unspecified neurocognitive disorder since Dagur has issues of executive function, namely his inhibition seen in how he just responds strangely to situations and seems to lack a filter even when he is not trying to be offensive. Also, this is associated with a loss of sympathy or empathy which he had as a bad guy, not even caring when he was hurting or scaring his own Berserkers Formerly narcissistic since he had a grandiose sense of self-importance and entitlement in addition to being preoccupied with success and power. He was also interpersonally exploitative with taking advantage of others like his fellow villains, again with lacking empathy, envious of others (Hiccup had a dragon and he didn’t), and arrogant. Last but certainly not least and maybe most, he has general personality disorder with his cognition (ways of perceiving/interpreting himself, people, and events) being impaired. He naturally thinks very differently from the others. His affectivity with emotions being intense and changing also are impaired as well as his impulse control. This disorder is also known for being stable which it is since it’s a persistent thing that didn’t change even when he was good. One of the funniest things to me was seeing him propose to Hiccup to be his best man and how that seemed entirely normal in his opinion |
| Dragonrider's Fury | 29 Sep 2023, 02:48 Post #5 |
|
Skrill
|
Sorry I'm just harping on the "Outcast Island prison" point and not addressing the rest of your points, but those will take more thinking than I feel like doing at the moment.  I was just going to say that Berk does have its own prison, as seen in... was it "To Heather Or Not To Heather"? I don't remember the episode name for sure. But in that episode (or whichever), we see Heather imprisoned on Berk for a while, until she escapes by climbing up to the ceiling and dropping down onto Bucket when he brings a meal. But if I'm calling Outcast Island "Berk's federal prison", I feel like the prison on Berk is more like, the county jailhouse, or something. Small-time "crooks" are locked up there, while the big-time, dangerous ones get sentenced to Outcast Island.
|
Team Pathetic Banner
Awesome Secret Odin 2019 GIFt set from Inhonoredglory. Thanks a ton! :-D
| |
| Strike Class | 29 Sep 2023, 13:39 Post #6 |
|
Strike Class
|
Oh right! I forgot that they did that that cell for her. Also, that's okay! I really respect you admitting that you'd get to the other points at a different time. |
| Strike Class | 30 Sep 2023, 20:28 Post #7 |
|
Strike Class
|
Hey everyone! Here's today's post. I think the best hero-villain dynamic was Hiccup and Dagur. Now, this isn't to say that I'm not a major Viggo fan and I will probably go to my grave saying that Grimmel was a Viggo wannabe, but I don't think either are the best foils for Hiccup as a hero. Grimmel asks the simple question: What would have happened if Hiccup killed Toothless and became bloodthirsty instead of showing mercy and becoming friends? I think it's an interesting enough question, but there needs to be more to it than that for the character to really be interesting and for the interactions to work. What made me extra angry is that I think the writers gave Grimmel the win. We have seen way worse threats be brought to Berk, but because the Riders couldn't look upwards and see two dragons on some building, that meant their island was taken over and abandoned? Especially with RTTE having that anniversary, showing that Berk was over 400 years old, abandoning it for a threat which easily could have been overcome was mind-boggling. So, I don't think Grimmel won so much as Hiccup lost since it wasn't his good villainy that really did the trick and instead was the writers having it out for Hiccup for whatever reason. I have a similar issue with Viggo. It's like the writers didn't know how to make both Hiccup and Viggo great rivals, so they'd have one do something out of character. Why on earth would Hiccup actually bring all of Berk's gold to that auction? WHY did Hiccup even bring the Dragon Eye back to the scene when he was looking for Heather in Maces and Talons Part Two when it had already been hidden properly by the twins' and Snotlout's accidentally helpful actions? The hunters wouldn't have looked in the same spot again if they'd gone back. Did Viggo outsmart him? I guess, but that's just because he wasn't using his brain at all. Heck, even Dagur commented in Gold Rush that Hiccup was way more difficult to defeat when he was fighting him. I agree. Viggo is really smart, but that's why seeing Hiccup bringing his A game too and still losing would have meant way more. Then, when Hiccup starts winning, it's like Viggo's mind has left. Why wouldn't he be suspicious of the Buffalord? He knows Hiccup loves dragons and would never just leave one with such healing properties on top of it to be taken and probably killed. I get that it was to save Astrid's life, but I feel like Viggo was being a little bizarrely naive. The show started giving us the Cliffnote versions of the Riders defeating Viggo with it happening at the beginning of the episodes since it was becoming so easy as time went on. Even Viggo at the end admitted his fake letter that Hiccup saw through wasn't actually a clever trick of his. With Dagur though, there's history and there's chemistry. They have enough subjects for high school (sorry for the awful joke). Seriously, they worked well as enemies (even though I adore their friendship  ). Dagur asks the better question for an alternative Hiccup: What would happen if Hiccup was different because of his brain instead of his body and never gained true respect/friendship in his tribe? That's way more layered than him just not killing Toothless. Dagur and Hiccup had a lot of parallels but also enough differences where it counted. As Dagur even said, they both are natural leaders, sons of chiefs, but as he didn't mention, they both were practically outcasts in their own homes with fathers who didn't understand them. Whereas Hiccup was scrawny and unathletic, Dagur was mentally ill. Their other differences came in with the father-son bond never being repaired and there being no Gobber in Dagur's life or any other friends like those Hiccup gained. Dagur was alone and it only made him get worse.Their history made them interesting since they had experiences we'd never seen before. I wish they delved more into that, but I guess that's what fanfics are for. I always felt like they were in-character and came to win with all they had even when one lost. I think the best example is the beginning of RTTE. They both won and lost. Dagur wanted the Dragon Eye, but Hiccup got it; and Hiccup didn't want Dagur to get the gold, but he got it. Both responded in ways that made total sense for who they were. Hiccup wasn't acting strangely for trying to save his friends or going back after Dagur. Dagur wasn't acting strangely for targeting the other Riders since he knew Hiccup would save them over trying to get everything back from him. Another fun one as in Gone Gustav Gone. Dagur lost by being tricked into thinking he was going for more treasure, but as soon as he realizes he's at a disadvantage, he puts things back on his terms. Hiccup wasn't foolish for saving Gustav and letting Dagur get away; Dagur wasn't foolish for being willing to give up the Dragon Eye in favor of his escape. They had so many interactions like that because they knew each other. Hiccup is inventive and caring, so Dagur knew he had to target people he'd care about to get to him. Villain Dagur is ruthless and doesn't play games like other villains. If he sees an opening to kill someone, he takes it, so Hiccup had to be on his guard and couldn't make a mistake or someone's life would be lost. Maybe that's why I think the other villains don't have that same effectiveness with Hiccup. If one of them wins, then maybe someone dies or maybe the game continues like when Viggo let Hiccup go even after the Flightmare got him. If that had been Dagur, Hiccup would have been killed. The two of them couldn't afford to behave out of character and make little slip ups or one of them would be dead or locked up for the rest of his life. What do you all think about that? I could very well be in the minority with this opinion. |
| Strike Class | 01 Oct 2023, 22:39 Post #8 |
|
Strike Class
|
Short post this time since not everything needs to be an essay despite my natural inclinations. Theory: I think the reason Dagur hates nicknames so much like he told Snotlout was because of Ansson and the other Berserkers. If the only nickname he got before befriending Snotlout was "Dainty," I could definitely see that spoiling the whole experience for him. On that topic, I actually love that "Dainty" was the specific type of namecalling that happened. That sounds terrible and I'm not trying to encourage bullying, but it makes sense. I don't think any other type of mean name would have worked for Dagur. Sure, Ansson could have called him weak, but he's strong; could have called him a punk, but he's a pretty brave viking; etc. Dainty is kind of the perfect insult because it's something that would have been a major insult during viking times (not like it would be considered polite now either) and especially for a future chief, but it could also be shown with some examples of his behavior. Back then, I can buy that people would have considered his dislike of bad table manners, the fact that he does actually say "please" and "thank you," the fruit baths he's apparently taken, and other things like that very dainty. He's even the only character to have called Mildew smelly, so that implies he values hygiene whereas other vikings like the twins and Gobber have to be forcibly bathed. I think these are fun character details, but I could absolutely see him being mistreated for them which is rather sad |
| Tuffnut'sChicken | 05 Oct 2023, 00:46 Post #9 |
B-BAWK!
|
Preach! PREACH! Ooh, that's a good point! I've never considered it from that angle. I'm going to see a whole new layer here now! This is all such good stuff here. It adds a whole new layer to their dynamic, and makes it that much more satisfying when they become friends. |
Clouds of corn 
| |
| Strike Class | 05 Oct 2023, 16:03 Post #10 |
|
Strike Class
|
Thanks! It's something I started thinking of recently. It's also why I love how Dagur became good. Unlike the others who changed because of someone winning (like Alvin wanting to have an island to go back to and Viggo knowing that the Flyers wanted to kill him), Dagur turned good for the sake of turning good. I think he always had it in him. I don't think he was just a bad apple destined for villainy. If he hadn't been alone for so much of his life, he probably could have been who we saw later. Even still, when he was alone again, he was able to find it within himself to change for the better. I think that's because he began to mature and I have so much respect for that. I don't even think he turned good when he freed Heather. I literally think it was when he shipwrecked and had to think, "Woah, I could die here and the most emotion anyone would feel is happiness." He had options. He didn't have to turn good or leave the hunters if he didn't want to. His plan was still intact with getting close to the Grimborns and then killing them. Despite them finding out about Heather, he was still in the clear. Before being good, we could see how much he had the capacity to care for someone with how he wanted to make sure he protected her. All the more reason why I think it's a shame (even though I adore evil Dagur) that no one could have just been there for him as a kid to get him to see what he was doing was wrong back then. Imagine all those years of happiness. |
| Users browsing this forum:
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests
|
|
| Print view | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · DreamWorks Dragons · Next Topic » |
| Members · Contact us · Delete cookies | It is currently 27 Apr 2024, 05:43 |