HideousZippleback

16 Jun 2014, 17:43

The fact that Valka's dragon army never spewed fire at Drago's army. I mean hello? They ARE dragons so why aren't they burning things up?

chimuelo

16 Jun 2014, 19:02

HideousZippleback

16 Jun 2014, 17:43

The fact that Valka's dragon army never spewed fire at Drago's army. I mean hello? They ARE dragons so why aren't they burning things up?

You're forgetting the rolling Zippleback fireballs.

athena2235

16 Jun 2014, 16:20

OK, I will admit it, I did not like the mind control aspect. I understand why they did it (wanting to put conflict between Hiccup and Toothless) but I feel this could have been done differently. I would have liked even giving toothless some sort of mind-altering substance better than mind control.

I realize it a fantasy animal, but most of the Dragons actions seem based on behaviors seen in real life--and mind control is just too out there. I did not mind the Red Death homing beacon type thing, as it is somewhat like real life. It was clear the Red Death kept them in line with brute force.

But using mind control to force toothless to do something that would be just totally against his will? Especially since that action is later what helps snap him out of it (with some help from Alpha distraction, but for most part, alpha does seem to concentrate on toothless) Would be the only major thing I would change (as I understood the reasoning behind the other choices, and mostly agree)

Fawnduu

17 Jun 2014, 03:29

athena2235

16 Jun 2014, 16:20

OK, I will admit it, I did not like the mind control aspect. I understand why they did it (wanting to put conflict between Hiccup and Toothless) but I feel this could have been done differently. I would have liked even giving toothless some sort of mind-altering substance better than mind control.

I realize it a fantasy animal, but most of the Dragons actions seem based on behaviors seen in real life--and mind control is just too out there. I did not mind the Red Death homing beacon type thing, as it is somewhat like real life. It was clear the Red Death kept them in line with brute force.

But using mind control to force toothless to do something that would be just totally against his will? Especially since that action is later what helps snap him out of it (with some help from Alpha distraction, but for most part, alpha does seem to concentrate on toothless) Would be the only major thing I would change (as I understood the reasoning behind the other choices, and mostly agree)

Me and my father were actually discussing this very topic and there are a few things that differentiate the red death and the alpha dragon.

1. the red death would be considered a "queen" if you will remember valka saying "most nests have a queen, but oh this is the king of all dragons the alpha dragon". So the alpha already has a larger influence over the dragons than the red death did.

2. Valka's alpha did not exhibit a mind controlling power over the dragons, the dragons still had their free will, they followed the white alpha because they chose to and sought his protection.

3. Drago's Alpha was controlled by Drago, only when Drago commanded him to use the mind controlling power did he do so. It was all Dragos influence over the dragon through presumed torture. The dominance he shows over hookfang through pure intimidation.
It is all drago's fault for the mind controlling of toothless, not so much his alpha " Good people under the control of bad men do bad things." in the words of valka herself.

Fawnduu

16 Jun 2014, 04:05

There were a lot of reasons for valka not to come back.

1. Hiccup would be a dragon killer just like his father

2. she believed stoick incapable of changing and was fed up and when she found a world where she could live peacefully amond dragons and save them she felt a greater sense of duty there

3. The fear of returning to him after so many years, how he would react. She was afraid of him being angry at her and it was the last thing she wanted so she avoided it.

You can clearly see it when she sees stoick, Her instant reaction is to go into defensive mode and she prepares herself for yelling and anger, but stoick is a changed man and she realizes this. Still it takes her a while to get warmed up because you can see the guilt she felt and still feels for not being there and still giving stoick a chance to change.

4. The fear of seeing her son grow into the same thing stoick was before she had left

5. I doubt a riders bond was instantly formed between her and cloud jumper, and she didnt have any sort of materials or tools, just the clothes on her back when she was kidnapped, so reestablishing a home and basically where she was in the world probably took some time enough to the point where it would feel inappropriate to go back.

6. I dont know if you have ever experienced moving away from a friend/family (going away to college or moving towns) But once you get past a certain point of not speaking to people who meant a lot to you at some point it becomes very difficult to speak to them again because you feel guilty for not contacting them sooner and you easily become afraid of how they will react to you coming home.

Astrid

19 Jun 2014, 22:46

Where to begin, well I agree with what most people here talked about
-valka acceptance being too easy/not enough conflict
-the little time some secondary characters had (really you can cut them off and you won't lose anything, so if you're not going to use them properly, and no humourous effect is not proper use, then you better don't put those characters).

But what personnally bothered me the most was how terrible the flow of the movie was. A long time ago I wrote in the forum how sure I was they were going to have a pace problem with the story, but it's not even a pace problem anymore it's a flow problem in the story, the story doesn't flow. There is no transition from one thing to another. I felt like I was reading a story and everytime something new was added it was like "and then this happened, and then this other thing happens, and then this other different thing happen" so there is no smooth transition from one thing to another and this disappointed me greatly.

Then some other things:
-the race scene, completely unnecessary (you introduce chracters you don't really use afterwards)
-how quick the bewilderbeast fight scene was and death, I think it only took 2 or 3 moves for drago's bewilderbeast to win (which granted it happens in nature too), but there was potential to make this much more epic
-even if the story didn't really allow it, I would have loved to see Skullcrusher mourn Stoick, I mean how does a dragon react once his rider dies? and talking about Skullcrusher, how can he so easily take Eret as his new rider?
-Hiccup's reaction when Drago took Toothless, like I get he is sad/angry/conflicted etc regarding Toothless and he pushes him away , but you can't scream "no" when you know you are loosing the battle and your opponent is aiming to take all the dragons with him including yours
- the music, somehow I felt that some tracks didn't blend so well with the scenes
- even if the convenience of "friendship overcomes everything" was there at the end, what bothered me the most was valka comment when she said "he'standing(doing it) for you" that ircked me so much, because sure he protected hiccup because he's his friend, but the fact for him to stand against the bewilderbeast was HIS moment, it was the "toothless won't take your sh*t anymore bewilderbeast" and because of what valka said Toothles just lost all his agency.

So yeah I think that's it I need to stop rambling

Astrid

19 Jun 2014, 22:46

Where to begin, well I agree with what most people here talked about
-valka acceptance being too easy/not enough conflict
-the little time some secondary characters had (really you can cut them off and you won't lose anything, so if you're not going to use them properly, and no humourous effect is not proper use, then you better don't put those characters).

But what personnally bothered me the most was how terrible the flow of the movie was. A long time ago I wrote in the forum how sure I was they were going to have a pace problem with the story, but it's not even a pace problem anymore it's a flow problem in the story, the story doesn't flow. There is no transition from one thing to another. I felt like I was reading a story and everytime something new was added it was like "and then this happened, and then this other thing happens, and then this other different thing happen" so there is no smooth transition from one thing to another and this disappointed me greatly.

Then some other things:
-the race scene, completely unnecessary (you introduce chracters you don't really use afterwards)
-how quick the bewilderbeast fight scene was and death, I think it only took 2 or 3 moves for drago's bewilderbeast to win (which granted it happens in nature too), but there was potential to make this much more epic
-even if the story didn't really allow it, I would have loved to see Skullcrusher mourn Stoick, I mean how does a dragon react once his rider dies? and talking about Skullcrusher, how can he so easily take Eret as his new rider?
-Hiccup's reaction when Drago took Toothless, like I get he is sad/angry/conflicted etc regarding Toothless and he pushes him away , but you can't scream "no" when you know you are loosing the battle and your opponent is aiming to take all the dragons with him including yours
- the music, somehow I felt that some tracks didn't blend so well with the scenes
- even if the convenience of "friendship overcomes everything" was there at the end, what bothered me the most was valka comment when she said "he'standing(doing it) for you" that ircked me so much, because sure he protected hiccup because he's his friend, but the fact for him to stand against the bewilderbeast was HIS moment, it was the "toothless won't take your sh*t anymore bewilderbeast" and because of what valka said Toothles just lost all his agency.

So yeah I think that's it I need to stop rambling