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When did Stoick actually get married?
Topic Started: 15 Jan 2015, 03:39 (941 Views)
DuckDuckDoose
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Dragon Egg

I came across a conspiracy theory about
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Source is below.
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Cartoon Freak
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Deadly Nadder

Can anyone provide the exact quote from Riders of Berk where Gobber says that he didn't meet Stoick until the latter was already married? According to the Tumbler posts, it's in the episode where Stoick meets Thornado. I think that's the key to solving this riddle.
Number of times I've watched the trailer: 18.

My pet peeve: people who refer to complete strangers by their first name. The correct ways to refer to a "John Smith" whom you have never met are Smith, Mr Smith, or John Smith. Not "John". He's not your buddy.
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Steve
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Hatchling

I looked at the transcript for the episode How To Pick Your Dragon. Stoick's the one who mentions meeting Gobber. Obviously, DreamWorks wouldn't intentionally have Valka be married that young. Sounds more like they forgot about the events in the series.
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Hiccup
So I've heard. Still. You have to let the dragon know you're a friend.

Stoick
A friend, huh? Oh! Like me and Gobber?

Hiccup
Yeah, perfect! What did you do when you two met?

Stoick
"That's my wife you're talking to, you one-legged lout!"
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KentuckyWildcat
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Raw Vikingness

Technically, the logic of that source seems sound. The RoB quote suggests that Stoick was already married when he met Gobber, the HTTYD 2 quote shows that they knew each other at least as far back when Stoick was 20, and official sources promoting HTTYD 2 had Stoick being 10 years older than Valka. Adding that all up does indeed point to Valka being no older than 10 at the time of the marriage if you take everything from the TV series as canon.

However, I'm not sure you can really do that. There's been several inconsistencies between the show and the movies when it comes to the finer details such as shot limits. Heck, the whole joke in that RoB quote seems to be that they became friends after Gobber made a pass at Stoick's wife, yet quite the deal was made about him officially being gay when HTTYD 2 was released.

Bottom line, I don't think the intent was for Valka's backstory to include being a child bride, especially since it's abundantly clear from the events of both movies that Berk doesn't participate in forced marriages.

Come death. Come suffering. I will not live in fear. In this fleeting life where time escapes us, the path of least resistance is a slow quiet death. I'd rather burn out than fade away.
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chupacabra
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Hatchling

How many straight guys get jealous when gay guys talk to their girlfriends/wives? :P
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Cartoon Freak
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Deadly Nadder

Right, so based on the transcript for the episode, the script for HTTYD 2, and some official background material, we can confirm the following:

1. Stoick and Gobber didn't meet until Stoick was already married. This doesn't make a great deal of sense, since Berk looks to be a fairly small village where everyone would at least have met everyone else, but hey, I suppose they might have only had passing meetings that Stoick didn't count for some reason.

2. Gobber knew Stoick when the latter was roughly twenty (that being Hiccup's approximate age in HTTYD 2).

3. Therefore, Stoick was married by age twenty or so.

4. Stoick is about ten years older than Valka.

5. Therefore, as a result of points 1-4, Valka was approximately ten years old when she married Stoick.

Now, many of you may find this revelation unpleasant. Well, too bad, it's canon. It is what it is, not what we want it to be. If I have to accept Valka as canon at all, then you need to accept her being a ten year-old bride as canon.

Now, to handle a few of the reasonable-but-wrong counterarguments.
Quote:
 
However, I'm not sure you can really do that. There's been several inconsistencies between the show and the movies when it comes to the finer details such as shot limits. Heck, the whole joke in that RoB quote seems to be that they became friends after Gobber made a pass at Stoick's wife, yet quite the deal was made about him officially being gay when HTTYD 2 was released.

Bottom line, I don't think the intent was for Valka's backstory to include being a child bride, especially since it's abundantly clear from the events of both movies that Berk doesn't participate in forced marriages.
1. Yes, there are contradictions between the TV show and the movies. This is not one of them. Valka being married at age ten does not contradict anything within either movie. Yes, it certainly appears that Berk does not have forced marriages within the timeframe of the movies, but that means nothing in regards to what was going on over thirty years before the first movie. Societies change, and their attitude to marriage could be one thing that changed within that timeframe.

2. Gay men are certainly capable of making a pass at a woman. It could be done to disguise their sexuality, or as a joke. No contradiction there.

3. Intent is irrelevant. It's what's actually in the text that's important. I sincerely doubt that any of the writers involved in this intended for Valka to be a child bride, but that's obviously what happened in the story. It's unpleasant, it's unintentional, but it's canon.
Number of times I've watched the trailer: 18.

My pet peeve: people who refer to complete strangers by their first name. The correct ways to refer to a "John Smith" whom you have never met are Smith, Mr Smith, or John Smith. Not "John". He's not your buddy.
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KentuckyWildcat
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Raw Vikingness

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16 Jan 2015, 01:12
1. Yes, there are contradictions between the TV show and the movies. This is not one of them. Valka being married at age ten does not contradict anything within either movie. Yes, it certainly appears that Berk does not have forced marriages within the timeframe of the movies, but that means nothing in regards to what was going on over thirty years before the first movie. Societies change, and their attitude to marriage could be one thing that changed within that timeframe.

2. Gay men are certainly capable of making a pass at a woman. It could be done to disguise their sexuality, or as a joke. No contradiction there.

3. Intent is irrelevant. It's what's actually in the text that's important. I sincerely doubt that any of the writers involved in this intended for Valka to be a child bride, but that's obviously what happened in the story. It's unpleasant, it's unintentional, but it's canon.
1. Yes, societies do change, but I wouldn't say the fact that forced marriages don't exist in the movies means nothing to the hypothetical near-past either. Stoick would have been the chief during most if not all of that time, and he's not exactly a progressive when we're first introduced to him. His resistance to change is even a fairly notable plot point in the movies. For that matter the majority of the village doesn't seem any less conservative initially. So while it's not impossible for a custom like that to have been thrown off in the 30 years or so immediately preceding the first movie, I'd consider it highly unlikely.

2. Good point. I'll take back what I said in my initial post about that meaning anything to this particular discussion.

3. This actually poses a fascinating question that I'll have to think about for awhile. Can something in a fictional universe be unintentionally canon? Especially if the basis for it is a throwaway line in a spin-off written by people who have nothing to do with the main component of the franchise? Even if the event in question involves a character that those spin-off writers didn't even know the details of when they wrote said throwaway line?

Not that I'm dead-set against the idea and will do anything to disprove it. Crap happens in the real world, so there's no reason to completely sanitize fictional worlds. It's just that in this particular case, I'm not convinced enough by the merits of such a conclusion to declare it to be a fact.
Come death. Come suffering. I will not live in fear. In this fleeting life where time escapes us, the path of least resistance is a slow quiet death. I'd rather burn out than fade away.
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Berknation
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[color=red]
[b]Titan Wing
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Pretty sure... Even in Viking-land... The leaders would not marry off a girl who has not 'developed' yet (unless she was an early bloomer). I mean it is possible. But... She would only be around 10-13 years older than Hiccup then.

Also, where did any of that come from about Gobber and Stoick not being friends till after Stoick and Valka were married?
And the other points?
Please source your evidence!
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Steve
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Berknation
16 Jan 2015, 02:47
Pretty sure... Even in Viking-land... The leaders would not marry off a girl who has not 'developed' yet (unless she was an early bloomer). I mean it is possible. But... She would only be around 10-13 years older than Hiccup then.

Also, where did any of that come from about Gobber and Stoick not being friends till after Stoick and Valka were married?
And the other points?
Please source your evidence!
You mean, like, a direct quote from the Riders of Berk episode? :P
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Hope_and_Heir
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[color=#B40431]Winner of Shnuckle's Oneshot Fanfiction Contest 2014
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Where did you guys get the fact that Valka was younger than Stoick by 10 years? Just curious cause I want to know what I missed.
'There Were Dragons When I Was A Boy…'



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