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| HTTYD3 concerns :-/ | |
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| Topic Started: 22 Jul 2014, 13:36 (5019 Views) | |
| Eret | 22 Jul 2014, 13:36 Post #21 |
....Son of Eret
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Anyway, for an actual on-topic and relevant comment....
Finding Dory I really can't see being a flop. Looking at HTTYD2's numbers, if Dragons 3 and Dory were released on the same day, Dory would crush it. |
| Cartoon Freak | 22 Jul 2014, 19:40 Post #22 |
Deadly Nadder
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As I believe I've said before, if this was just wondering out of mild intellectual curiosity, that would be one thing. But when people are worrying about such things (and they are), that's when things become baffling. Why worry about this? What benefit is there in it? Actually, Toy Story is the perfect example to use, because it shows that if you have a good story, it doesn't matter if the animation isn't like bleeding diamonds from your eyes. And let's not kid ourselves: HTTYD 3 will not take a noticeable step backwards in the quality of its animation. It just might not have the budget to take a step forwards. And frankly, that's a problem so minor that it's not even worth considering until we actually see some footage. And frankly, if DeBlois actually thought he was going to get more running time for an animated movie, then he has no idea what he's doing. I for one give him more credit than that. Love for a franchise is not sufficient to make a good movie, nor is it even necessary. It helps of course, but that's another matter. The history of cinema is littered with directors' pet projects that failed to tell a good story, and to go to a different medium (because I don't have a good example to hand for film - I'm sure plenty exist), Charles Dickens wrote A Christmas Carol for the money. The problem is emphasis. Why does any fan care this much about the film's box office this far out, when it has no impact on the films? Concern about the second film's box office at least makes sense (budget for HTTYD 3), but this is just worrying for the sake of worrying. And in a thread called "HTTYD 3 concerns", the fact that this is the only concern is just baffling. |
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Number of times I've watched the trailer: 18. My pet peeve: people who refer to complete strangers by their first name. The correct ways to refer to a "John Smith" whom you have never met are Smith, Mr Smith, or John Smith. Not "John". He's not your buddy. | |
| puxlit | 23 Jul 2014, 00:02 Post #23 |
Better in Silhouette Form
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Perhaps. It's certainly tempting to pin the blame on ineffectual marketing, though without relevant data, I'd hesitate to call it clear-cut. Regardless, if we were to dissect HTTYD 2's marketing campaign and speculate on where its faults may lie, I don't see how it wouldn't be appropriate in this forum. (And yes, The Gruen Transfer is rather entertaining.) Fair enough, though I'd hesitate to call it unhealthy. Nobody's suggesting that through consternation we can effect a desirable outcome, and I doubt any of us are losing sleep over the matter. Rather, I should think that most of us are simply empathising with the artists. It must be somewhat disheartening having work on a film for four years to be greeted with such a lacklustre public reception. Is sympathy such an unreasonable response? There may be better forums, but why should that preclude discussion in this forum? And who exactly is the arbiter of tangency? If somebody posted sales figures for HTTYD 2 toys, I'm sure some of us would find it interesting, if for no other reason than curiosity. Sure, constraints focus creative endeavours. Sure, story is paramount. (And it seems at least some of DWA's artists recognise this: "Many of the lower-level artists, acutally [sic] making the films, wonder what the thought process is in the story department and at the executive level that so many films there that start off as great ideas end up as disappointments once finally up on screen. It's not the quality of the graphics, or the voice acting, or the animation itself. It's the story.") Yes, Apollo theoretically means they can get more done with less (time and budget). Yes, it's possible they'll reuse HTTYD 2 assets for the third film. Admittedly, it seems overly paranoid to suggest that DWA's executives will be so capricious as to cripple HTTYD 3's production budget. Still, to tie all the threads in the HTTYD universe together in one 90-minute film is an ambitious undertaking, and just how ambitious (and by extension, fulfilling) that story can get is dependent on its budget; a $30m final film and a $100m final film are likely to have significant story differences, purely to accomodate for what is possible given their available manpower. Arguably, it was a bit of both: a compelling premise and solid writing. We may have to wait a few more years before we start seeing films from DWA that started development post-HTTYD. Perhaps I ought to have clarified: by serious, I don't mean the tone of the film; rather, I mean in how it utilises the medium for storytelling. Thus, a film that's primarily preoccupied with gratuitous eye candy would not be taking the medium seriously. Sure; I think the main sticking point is how we define a "good" film. Some studios seem primarily focussed on quality storytelling—notably Laika and Pixar—but with DWA, it seems quality storytelling is contingent on financial viability, and if that's the case, naturally our speculation will extend to the realm of box office results. |
| Cartoon Freak | 23 Jul 2014, 08:03 Post #24 |
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Deadly Nadder
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Okay, fair point. Intellectual analysis of anything is worthwhile, if only because it helps one practise how to think, regardless of whether or not the subject is of any use. So intellectual investment is fine. Emotional investment to the point of worrying, which seems to be more what's going on here, is a lot worse. The bulk of this topic seems to be about worrying, rather than doing anything to make the artists feel better. Also, oh yes, let us pity those poor artists who only had their work seen by millions of people. I'd be grateful to have a thousand people read anything I've ever written. And honestly, while great art can come from any motivation, one really shouldn't be making it for the primary purpose of getting attention. That just requires way too much luck to be the thing on which one pins one's hopes. Well, it's basically a waste of the hypothetical topic creator's time to talk about something on a forum that is, on the whole, woefully unqualified to discuss it, when there are places you could actually get intelligent conversation, and maybe even some results. Regarding tangency (oh hey, that is a word), to understand it, you have to get to the essence of what HTTYD is. HTTYD is a collection of works of fiction. That's the thing we're supposed to be fans of, not box office revenue. Therefore, that's the thing that should form the focus of discussion. Discussions of box-office revenue or toy sales only has meaning within the context of the businesses of cinemas/film studios or toy stores/toy companies as a whole. DeBlois has repeatedly stated that he views this franchise as a trilogy, and has from the instant he started working on HTTYD 2. If he can't create a story that can be told within the framework that he himself established, then he messed up, big-time. At that point, budget and box office are the least of our concerns. And for what it's worth, I give DeBlois way more credit than that. At present, I have no particular reason to suspect that HTTYD 3 won't be at least decent. Actually, we would logically have seen that by now, since HTTYD 2 wasn't even confirmed until HTTYD was a proven hit. Based on this year's crop of Dreamworks movies, the future's not looking particularly bright. There's decent stuff, sure, but nothing on nearly HTTYD's level. Well, we're perfectly safe from that being done at all intentionally. The worst thing that's likely to happen from a lacklustre box office performance for HTTYD sequels is that Dreamworks will go to lighthearted comedies, which can still be excellent if you have good writers. Dreamworks just don't seem to have many of those, but that's a problem regardless of what genre they're making. Okay, let's assume that Dreamworks go back towards comedy as a result of all of this (a reasonable business decision). There are loads of good comedy writers out there who would jump at the chance to write a movie that will be seen by millions of people. Two good comedy writers, tone down the animation a bit (to, say, Blue Sky levels, which are perfectly acceptable) to save the money you spent to get them, and the result is a good animated comedy that will make a healthy profit at the box office because that's what good animated comedies do when they've got one of the major studios behind them. There, we're all happy. Money is not the issue here, but rather, the company's direction. That's going to be a problem no matter what's happening at the box office. |
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Number of times I've watched the trailer: 18. My pet peeve: people who refer to complete strangers by their first name. The correct ways to refer to a "John Smith" whom you have never met are Smith, Mr Smith, or John Smith. Not "John". He's not your buddy. | |
| MissunyNightFury | 24 Jul 2014, 20:04 Post #25 |
Escaped from an asylem
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 I agree. DW should move the movie to a later date. They might move it when that time comes around. |
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"There's something you must remember when riding a dragon. There's no manual, no safety harness, no guarantees when you're on one of these beasts. All you have is the wind in your hair, and the clothes on your back. The only thing between you and that dragon is your saddle. You need to hold onto it for dear life, as that creature takes you the skies. That, is dragon riding." | |
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