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Dagur: Character Deep Dive
Topic Started: 22 Oct 2023, 17:08 (23536 Views)
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Dragonrider's Fury
21 Oct 2023, 02:05
That's true; however, you have to remember that at that point, Dagur was clearly under a crushing load of guilt for not, well, doing anything back in the past to reciprocate his father's love. That will make you think and see things differently. Had Oswald not been a good father to him, Dagur would not have cared as much. Obviously, there is (usually) an emotional bond between father and son that even very poor parenting would not break, but we can tell from Dagur's behavior that he cared hugely that he had not been the son he should have.
That's a fair point! Dagur did seem to care a lot, so Oswald really might not have been as bad as I was thinking. I feel torn on him being dead because part of me loves that they gave real consequences to Dagur's actions and another part of me wishes that we got to see him and see what he's like.
Dragonrider's Fury
21 Oct 2023, 02:05
As for how no one in his tribe knew his final location, how could they? He was unexpectedly stranded on an island, with no means of communication. If you mean "How did no one in his tribe know his intended destination?", again, we don't know that that's the case. But the most anyone would have had was "Chief Oswald was sailing to meet with the chief of the Shivering Shores {or whatever}. Chief Oswald never made it there," or perhaps, "Chief Oswald met with Chieftess Bertha of the Bog Burglar Tribe {or whatever}, then sailed for home. Chief Oswald never made it back."
True, I definitely meant to say intended destination. It's true again that we technically don't know since we didn't see it, but I think your theory of the two taking different ships is the only way it could have worked for Oswald to have told someone where he was going and still have been thought to have been murdered. My only issue with the theory is really with the show itself. They kept things so vague! I wish they elaborated more. I would happily accept that Oswald was a good dad who wanted to give Dagur that experience, but without any mention to something like that, I'm stuck taking them at their word and that alone. But I think it's definitely a possibility, though.

Dragonrider's Fury
21 Oct 2023, 02:05
The obvious answer here is that the writers weren't really thinking through previous events as much as they should have been. An in-universe answer, though, would (again) require more thinking than I feel like doing at the moment, since I've already been working on typing this for a rather long time. :P
This is fun, though! :D

Agreed again. They just didn't think that part through (despite having an entire team -_- ) I'm glad you're having fun too with this! Want to try another theory? I think that Dagur and Viggo actually would have been a really good villain team if they had worked together. They have strengths and weaknesses that complement each other. Whereas Viggo is so cocky that he refused to see when someone was betraying him (outside of Heather), Dagur was fine letting people think they won even if he knew he had the upper hand. On the other side, whereas Dagur's temper messed him and bad him act rashly, Viggo is level-headed and normally doesn't let it get to him.
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22 Oct 2023, 17:08
I feel torn on him {Oswald} being dead because part of me loves that they gave real consequences to Dagur's actions and another part of me wishes that we got to see him and see what he's like.
Technically, we do get to see him (though only from the back). If you recall, while Dagur's reading his letter, the scene cuts a couple times to him writing said letter. Here's a couple screencaps (in low quality, because for some stupid reason, even though I paid for them in HD, Google doesn't give me the option to watch them in HD >:():
Spoiler: click to toggle
I do agree; I'd like to have gotten to learn more about him.
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22 Oct 2023, 17:08
My only issue with the {two ships} theory is really with the show itself. They kept things so vague! I wish they elaborated more. I would happily accept that Oswald was a good dad who wanted to give Dagur that experience, but without any mention to something like that, I'm stuck taking them at their word and that alone. But I think it's definitely a possibility, though.
I'm... conflicted on that point. On the one hand, yes, I too wish they would have elaborated more. But on the other, because they did not, they have given us, the fanbase, the freedom to interpret things as we will, and that's pretty cool! Because of that, we get to have this fun discussion. ^_^
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22 Oct 2023, 17:08
I think that Dagur and Viggo actually would have been a really good villain team if they had worked together. They have strengths and weaknesses that complement each other. Whereas Viggo is so cocky that he refused to see when someone was betraying him (outside of Heather), Dagur was fine letting people think they won even if he knew he had the upper hand. On the other side, whereas Dagur's temper messed him and bad him act rashly, Viggo is level-headed and normally doesn't let it get to him.
I would agree, if not for the fact that while they were working together, they seemed to clash fairly frequently. Although it has been some time since I last watched RTTE, so I may be misremembering.
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Dragonrider's Fury
22 Oct 2023, 23:26
Technically, we do get to see him (though only from the back). If you recall, while Dagur's reading his letter, the scene cuts a couple times to him writing said letter. Here's a couple screencaps (in low quality, because for some stupid reason, even though I paid for them in HD, Google doesn't give me the option to watch them in HD >:():
Good point! I just mean that I wish we got to see his face. My headcanon is that he's a brunet like Heather, but Dagur has his nose, and they both got green eyes from him. What do you think? I'm mostly going off how Zephyr had Hiccup's auburn hair while Nuffink is a blond like Astrid. I like when cartoon characters sort of mismatch traits from parents of the opposite sex. It seems boring to just have the daughters look like just their moms and sons like their fathers.
Dragonrider's Fury
22 Oct 2023, 23:26
I'm... conflicted on that point. On the one hand, yes, I too wish they would have elaborated more. But on the other, because they did not, they have given us, the fanbase, the freedom to interpret things as we will, and that's pretty cool! Because of that, we get to have this fun discussion. ^_^
That is extremely true! I'm also torn with stuff like that. I love closure for stories, but then I love theorizing and we wouldn't be able to do stuff like this if they answered every question. So, I guess I'm pretty happy at the end of the day. Honestly, I think one of the things I love about Dagur's character so much is that it feels like the writers wanted us to look deeper with things. I've seen some shows (Young Justice cough cough) where I start trying to analyze a character, then they confirm just enough background information to actually make it really boring and shallow. For Dagur, it's like they give us a handful of pieces to a great puzzle, then we can interpret the rest.
Dragonrider's Fury
22 Oct 2023, 23:26
I would agree, if not for the fact that while they were working together, they seemed to clash fairly frequently. Although it has been some time since I last watched RTTE, so I may be misremembering.
You're not misremembering at all! This is just a weird thought I had, but you're exactly right that they really didn't get along. I'm just thinking about an AU where Viggo set aside his pride long enough to actually view Dagur as an equal (or at the very least not some brainless ruffian). I think that's what the problem was. I think humility is a major part of any team-up. Contrary to popular belief, I actually do think Dagur has humility at times. He was fine letting Alvin think that he in charge, let the Grimborns treat him like an idiot, and let Gustav think he was pulling the wool over his eyes with the whole apprenticeship thing. Viggo just is cocky and stayed that way until the very end. It's why he didn't see that Dagur wasn't loyal, that his brother was going to turn on him, or that Krogan and Johann both saw him as expendable. If he had been able to put aside his arrogance for long enough to see that Dagur actually is clever, they could have been a deadly team (until Dagur tried to kill him at least :blink: ) But maybe that could also change in this AU. I'm just spitballing, though
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Random thought I had today. I think that the best brotherhood is definitely Dagur and Hiccup, but I actually think that the best friendship could potentially become Dagur and Snotlout :snotlout: . To start, I think Dagur's the only character who can really get along with all the riders. He can do training exercises and sparring with Astrid, goof off by enjoying destruction and engaging in random topics with the twins, geek out about Gronckles and do meditation with Fishlegs, and go on adventures with Hiccup. For a while, I struggled with figuring out just what in particular he'd do in hanging out with Snotlout, but I think it was difficult because there are so many options. We saw him and Snotlout having fun by fighting people; we saw them just being silly with providing commentary for Hiccstrid. I wish we got to see more because I think there's a lot of potential there. They could have fun play fighting like we saw Snotlout and Tuffnut, but they could also probably just come up with random things. I could absolutely see Dagur joining in with Snotlout narrating events like he did on "The Search For Oswald...And Chicken." In addition to them being able to kid around and just have a good time, I can also see them having serious moments. We've seen Snotlout open up about how worried he was about Hookfang when they thought Stormfly was dying and when he advised Minden on not giving up when it gets hard. We've seen Dagur be serious with things like when he was advising Hiccup on not giving into revenge and when he was apologizing to Heather.

That's why I can see this working really well. They're the only pair I can really see having a fun time and also getting to be really serious without either being out-of-character. High-key, I wish they got to be friends as kids. Snotlout got pressured into being such a jerk because of Spitelout and trying to be a "man." Dagur is anything but your traditional viking and I think he could have helped Snotlout get over some of his insecurities. Also, little Dagur having a friend probably would have helped him be at least 50% less maniacal as a teenager, so win-win. They were both probably really lonely as kids. the future is still bright, though! I saw a fanfic where Snotlout called him his best friend and I thought that was adorable. <3 What does everyone else think?
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New theory! I have been thinking about the fact that Mala and Dagur combined their kingdoms. To me, I can't imagine either leaving their home. We know how much Caldera Cay meant to Mala. She was willing to die for her island and people. I don't see her just up and moving to Berserker Island. We also have seen how much Dagur loves being a Berserker with caring about his family, people's history, etc. Heck, he was even still being their chief in the final episode. So, that's where my mind wonders, "How did they manage the two islands?" A theory I have seen in fanfics and agree with is that they split their time. 3 months on each island going back and forth with Throk and Heather in charge until they get back. At least until all the dragons are sent away since they'd have to permanently relocate to Berserker Island to avoid everyone dying via lava. Thanks again for that, Hiccup :alpha:
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23 Oct 2023, 02:44
Good point! I just mean that I wish we got to see his face. My headcanon is that he's a brunet like Heather, but Dagur has his nose, and they both got green eyes from him. What do you think? I'm mostly going off how Zephyr had Hiccup's auburn hair while Nuffink is a blond like Astrid. I like when cartoon characters sort of mismatch traits from parents of the opposite sex. It seems boring to just have the daughters look like just their moms and sons like their fathers.
I think I'd need to see their mother before I could form a good opinion. :P But I do agree with your last opinion. Not only is that boring; it's also unrealistic, and I like my realism (or at least, "realism"). 8)

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23 Oct 2023, 02:44
I've seen some shows (Young Justice cough cough) where I start trying to analyze a character, then they confirm just enough background information to actually make it really boring and shallow. For Dagur, it's like they give us a handful of pieces to a great puzzle, then we can interpret the rest.
Absolutely! And it's not just Dagur, either. There are actually a lot of things through the shows (not so much the films, but some there, too) that are left open to interpretation/theory. That's probably another reason I enjoy this series so much.

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23 Oct 2023, 02:44
You're not misremembering at all! This is just a weird thought I had, but you're exactly right that they really didn't get along. I'm just thinking about an AU where Viggo set aside his pride long enough to actually view Dagur as an equal (or at the very least not some brainless ruffian). I think that's what the problem was. I think humility is a major part of any team-up. Contrary to popular belief, I actually do think Dagur has humility at times. He was fine letting Alvin think that he in charge, let the Grimborns treat him like an idiot, and let Gustav think he was pulling the wool over his eyes with the whole apprenticeship thing. Viggo just is cocky and stayed that way until the very end. It's why he didn't see that Dagur wasn't loyal, that his brother was going to turn on him, or that Krogan and Johann both saw him as expendable. If he had been able to put aside his arrogance for long enough to see that Dagur actually is clever, they could have been a deadly team (until Dagur tried to kill him at least :blink: ) But maybe that could also change in this AU. I'm just spitballing, though
Ah, AU. In that case, yeah, I could see them being a very formidable team. On the topic of Viggo and his arrogance, though, another thing I love is that, if you think about, that arrogance and its consequences were actually perfectly justified. Throughout the show, it seems pretty clear (to me, anyway) that Viggo has never faced an opponent like Hiccup in the "Maces and Talons" game of life, who challenges his every move, who forces him to think outside the box to strategize his way to victory; yet he does that, and does emerge victorious in very nearly every "game" they play together. That could very easily make one cocky. Back in the Heather situation, he had not been "playing" Hiccup very long, had not managed to squeeze out many victories, and thus was not so blinded by arrogance. As the show goes on, however, and he accumulates victories over Hiccup and grows cockier, he makes more and more misjudgments, finally losing himself the "game" (although not without learning some things from his greatest adversary).

If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to talk further about Viggo. I know this thread is supposed to be a Dagur deep-dive, but a Viggo discussion like our Dagur ones could be so much fun! :D I have a theory or two I'd love to discuss. ^_^
Proverbs 25:11
 
A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.
Proverbs 15:1
 
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.

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I'm glad you agree with realism. I feel like they just forgot that this poor woman existed. They literally never mention her. How'd she die? Did she? I assume so. What even was her name? I have to agree with you on Viggo. His arrogance was well-deserved since he had no reason to doubt his abilities before Hiccup.
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04 Nov 2023, 16:45
If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to talk further about Viggo. I know this thread is supposed to be a Dagur deep-dive, but a Viggo discussion like our Dagur ones could be so much fun! :D I have a theory or two I'd love to discuss. ^_^
I wouldn't mind at all! That sounds like fun too :D ! Let's give him his own forum too. Do you want to start it or do you want me to?
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There's something I've been thinking about with Dagur and one of the reasons why he's my favorite. I think that a lot of the other characters get their light dimmed in favor of Hiccup. Astrid is basically his shadow, hardly even spending time with the others; Snotlout can't get developed too far without being reset to the status quo so that he's still the dumb jock type; Fishlegs has to be the scared one so that Hiccup seems braver; and the twins are goofy so that Hiccup is more competent. For Dagur, there's only one time where I felt like he got his light dimmed. I still wasn't happy that it happened, but I'm glad it was just the once. That was in Mi Amore Armorwing. Two times technically, but it was the same episode. The minor one is him waiting on Hiccup to come up with a plan when they were trapped by the Flyers. Sorry. Don't buy that. We saw in Gold Rush that as soon as they arrived where they though the gold was, Dagur immediately jumped into chief mode with taking charge and making plans. This happens first when they were looking for the food and then again when Hiccup, Astrid, the twins, and Snotlout got captured. I don't believe that he suddenly would just wait on Hiccup to come up with a plan when he thinks they're all about to die any second. That's not him. The plan was awful too. One simple fix could have made it work. Have Hookfang lead them away and have Sleuther fly off with the Armorwing. Strykie has shown how strong he is since he brought Windshear, Heather, and a cage our of water. He's incredibly strong but speed isn't his thing. They've constantly said how fast Hookfang is. I don't know what the writers were doing with this episode. The entire episode was a weird one to put Hiccup and Astrid in the forefront as if they aren't always.

Along the same lines as this, his engagement was his light being dimmed. I would have LOVED to have seen he and Mala fall in love, showing how she can reel in his wild side and how he can help her loosen up (I'll have a post about this in the future), but it was almost treated like a joke just to make Astrid jealous. Odd since they literally had an episode about how she and Hiccup hardly spent time with the others anymore, being too lovey dovey. So, why is she suddenly so insecure when Dagur and Mala are doing that? Is it so bad to not be the center of attention for once? We got three episodes of Dagala and one includes their wedding. A real shame.
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Sad(ish) theory time :'(

I think that Dagur has a problem with revealing vulnerable information about himself. I can think of four times when he has, but they have all been either out of it being relevant or helpful for the other person to know. The first was in Enemy of My Enemy when he told Hiccup that he knew vengeance could make you do things you didn't think you were capable of. He wasn't saying that to share his experiences randomly. Instead, he wanted to help convince Hiccup that going down the same path he'd gone on was a bad idea.

The second time was in The Search for Oswald...and Chicken. He told Heather that he's spent most of his life in varying stages of existential crises. That already is wild to me, but what's even more so is the fact that this didn't lead into a serious talk to see if he's okay. He didn't choose to elaborate about what that was like for him. He just told her so that she'd know he knew "the meaning of meaningless" regarding their dad's journal.

Heck, the third time was also this episode when he told Hiccup that he keeps anger, frustration, and rage to himself so that he would know that he could withhold information like the location of Vanaheim.

The last one was in In Plain Sight. He told Fishlegs and Snotlout about Ansson bullying him, but it wasn't just a moment of opening up. He told them because they were literally about to meet the guy.

I feel like we also see more of this with everything he doesn't say (like more about those crises! I need to know!). Things like his time in jail too. Even in the cave with Hiccup, he clearly was having a nightmare about something, but brushed it off. If anybody else can think of a time he opened up, I'd love to know! I think It's really sad if the only time he does is to help someone else or out of necessity. Doesn't really help him talk out problems
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