Toothless Character |
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 22:29 (5138 Views)
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MartianArchaeologist
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15 Jul 2014, 22:29
Post #1
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Gronckle
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Thinking about the Dane Stogner interview. I like the use of so many different animals. Especially since many of Chris Sanders' storyboards have Toothless looking like a bunny.
Have been thinking about what they might do in HTTYD3. They might want to bring some more of the cat-flavored Toothless back and here's why: Cats sit and watch things. They think. They scheme. Now that Toothless is an Alpha, he needs a little more of that.
And if you think all cats are standoffish, you've never had a Maine Coon.
Just thinking...
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ToothlessNightFury
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15 Jul 2014, 22:49
Post #2
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Toothless
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Cats sit and watch but dogs protect and between the tv series and both movies Toothless had both personalitles. The stuborn sarcastic watchful cat and the playful adorable protective dog
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Believe a Dragon Can Thaw A Frozen Heart Role Play Based of HTTYD and Frozen
Around here we don't look back. We keep moving forward, opening up new doors and doing new things, because we're curious...and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths.-Walt Disney
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Cartoon Freak
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16 Jul 2014, 07:03
Post #3
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Deadly Nadder
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In the end, Toothless is Toothless. It's a tautology, of course, but one worth bearing in mind. Trying to break down his behaviour to just "cat" or "dog" or any particular animal is doing a disservice to the character and the writers. The writers may well take inspiration from certain animals, but I sincerely doubt that it's done because it's something those animals do, so much as it being something entertaining that they have a model for. When the story requires the writers to come up with a behaviour that is unlike any particular animal, they are certainly able to do so ("The Eel Effect" is an obvious example).
Personally, I find assigning some characteristics to certain animals to be rather inaccurate, but that's a completely different kettle of fish.
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Number of times I've watched the trailer: 18.
My pet peeve: people who refer to complete strangers by their first name. The correct ways to refer to a "John Smith" whom you have never met are Smith, Mr Smith, or John Smith. Not "John". He's not your buddy.
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MartianArchaeologist
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16 Jul 2014, 12:05
Post #4
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Gronckle
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- Cartoon Freak
- 16 Jul 2014, 11:03
In the end, Toothless is Toothless. It's a tautology, of course, but one worth bearing in mind. Trying to break down his behaviour to just "cat" or "dog" or any particular animal is doing a disservice to the character and the writers. The writers may well take inspiration from certain animals, but I sincerely doubt that it's done because it's something those animals do, so much as it being something entertaining that they have a model for. When the story requires the writers to come up with a behaviour that is unlike any particular animal, they are certainly able to do so ("The Eel Effect" is an obvious example).
Personally, I find assigning some characteristics to certain animals to be rather inaccurate, but that's a completely different kettle of fish.
Good rebuttal. Thanks.
I guess I needed to explain myself more on this issue. And since I'm not in the Top Secret forum, it will need spoiler tags.
The Clarification:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Along with the idiosyncracies of each animal's behavior, they've animated the communication methods of each animal. Including the human animal. For example, when Toothless wants to show he's cranky at Hiccup, Toothless turns around and presents his back parts. That's something that both a rabbit and a horse will do to communicate that you're not worth his time. Toothless communicates to Stormfly--and Valka--in bird language, with the head-bobbing.
Although Toothless already seemed fluent in Dog, it seemed to me that Toothless was learning more Dog at Valka's sanctuary--he seemed quite surprised at the butt-sniffing thing.  Which makes sense as pack behavior seems most obvious in canine societies. At least most obvious to humans.
Toothless is now Alpha. Now Toothless can use all those languages he's learned to function as the Alpha. Maybe it will be a Doctor Doolittle thing (the books, not the movies.) Or a Tarzan thing (The movie, not the books). I remember a scene where Tarzan is talking with the baby baboon about Jane's sketch--that sort of scene, rather than chumming around with his pals in Human. So the animators will be able to riff along those lines in the next movie, now that Toothless is Alpha.
Also since the Bewilderbeasts were displaying primate behavior (hey, humans display primate behavior--what a concept) I wouldn't be surprised if Toothless took the cue and started behaving in primate, or even elephant, to communicate Alpha.
But I would like to se the return of the cat dialect, if nothing else than because cat was originally so prevalent in Toothless's genome.
Toothless is now back in sync with Hiccup, as of the end of the movie. In fact, if they hadn't taken Toothless out of sync with Hiccup during the movie, I don't think Toothless being hypnotized by the Bewilderbeast would have worked. Hiccup didn't seem to have any problem standing up to the Good Alpha, while Toothless felt he needed to bow. I was a bit surprised by that, actually. But for this plot to work, that needed to be shown. Cats do pack up in prides, but I don't think that the non-alpha cats look as submissive as that to the alpha cats.
But the reason they should add cat here is because it puts Toothless back in sync with Hiccup the inventor--cats will learn how to operate doorknobs and other devices, learn the behaviors of mice and birds, and their behavior while doing this is not Dog, Rabbit, or even Primate. Also Toothless needs to get back in sync with Hiccup the Disobedient, someone with his own mind. And that comes out most loudly in Cat.
My opinion, and just something where I see possibility. Not intended to tell the animators "Thou Shalt Do Thusly" because that might not serve the story that they actually plan to tell.
And that thing.
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ggamer77
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16 Jul 2014, 12:31
Post #5
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Hatchling
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Yeah, Toothless is Toothless.
It gets really annoying when shows or movies make animal characters act specifically like a cat or dog.
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irc://irc.caffie.net/HTTYD
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https://www.youtube.com/user/ggamer77
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thenightandthefury
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16 Jul 2014, 22:28
Post #6
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Gronckle
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Alright for those who are saying toothless is being disrespected or is too special to be any particular animal, click the spoiler.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Source1: http://movies.about.com/od/howtotrainyo ... trivia.htm
Source 2: http://open.salon.com/blog/amber_nasrul ... y_a_red_ta
Ok for those of you saying "Toothless is Toothless" and "He's not any animal" think about this. The animators, to make Toothless' distinct personality, combined MANY different animals. They included all sorts of animal sounds and behavior to make him seem like something out of this world. That's what makes him Toothless, but remember he does display different animal traits. It's how he was invented. It's not being disrespectful of Toothless because who Toothless is IS actually many animals combined. They used elephant, horse, tiger, etc sounds for him and even some humans for some sounds. That was just for the first movie, google "Toothless actor" and you'll come up with how they made Toothless' voice. Google it, you'll find that they did base his personality off of cats and dogs, as well as many other creatures. Each dragon is unique because each one obviously has a different combination of animal traits. Martian is right in the spoiler. Remember just because Toothless is adorable and one of a kind doesn't make how he was invented (with sounds, animal behavior specialists weighing in, on pen and paper and on a computer) mean him any disrespect. If anything, you should praise DreamWorks for being genius enough to make each dragon personality so unique by incorporating so many traits, sounds, animals, etc.
Thank you!
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ToothlessNightFury
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16 Jul 2014, 23:44
Post #7
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Toothless
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- thenightandthefury
- 17 Jul 2014, 02:28
Alright for those who are saying toothless is being disrespected or is too special to be any particular animal, click the spoiler.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Source1: http://movies.about.com/od/howtotrainyo ... trivia.htm
Source 2: http://open.salon.com/blog/amber_nasrul ... y_a_red_ta
Ok for those of you saying "Toothless is Toothless" and "He's not any animal" think about this. The animators, to make Toothless' distinct personality, combined MANY different animals. They included all sorts of animal sounds and behavior to make him seem like something out of this world. That's what makes him Toothless, but remember he does display different animal traits. It's how he was invented. It's not being disrespectful of Toothless because who Toothless is IS actually many animals combined. They used elephant, horse, tiger, etc sounds for him and even some humans for some sounds. That was just for the first movie, google "Toothless actor" and you'll come up with how they made Toothless' voice. Google it, you'll find that they did base his personality off of cats and dogs, as well as many other creatures. Each dragon is unique because each one obviously has a different combination of animal traits. Martian is right in the spoiler. Remember just because Toothless is adorable and one of a kind doesn't make how he was invented (with sounds, animal behavior specialists weighing in, on pen and paper and on a computer) mean him any disrespect. If anything, you should praise DreamWorks for being genius enough to make each dragon personality so unique by incorporating so many traits, sounds, animals, etc.
Thank you!
this^^
I also read in an interview with Dean that he admited Toohless was cat like in the first movie and him and the others who worked on the movie all perfer dogs and thought he should have some puppy playfulness to him for the 2nd movie
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Believe a Dragon Can Thaw A Frozen Heart Role Play Based of HTTYD and Frozen
Around here we don't look back. We keep moving forward, opening up new doors and doing new things, because we're curious...and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths.-Walt Disney
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thenightandthefury
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17 Jul 2014, 00:21
Post #8
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Gronckle
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Yes thank you. I read it in several interviews too, not only online but posted right here on the grapevine before the movie came out and afterwards.
In fact if you scroll down to the bottom of the interview "Dragons 2: Darkest One of the Series" which a lot of people didn't read for spoilers sake, it says what each main dragon is a combination of. See here
http://www.berksgrapevine.com/2014/03/d ... ne-in.html
I will list what each dragon is here with spoilers in case you don't want to read the whole thing.
Toothless
Spoiler: click to toggle Horse + Wombat + Kangaroo + Bat + Snake + Cat + Dog + Panther + Bird of Prey
Stormfly
Spoiler: click to toggle Ostrich + Tyrannosaurus Rex + Parrot
Meatlug
Spoiler: click to toggle Pit Bull + Crocodile + Harley Davidson + Helicopter
Skullcrusher
Spoiler: click to toggle Rhino + Truffle Pig + Dung Beetle + Jackhammer + Battle Axe
Barf & Belch
Spoiler: click to toggle Cobra + Horned Lizard + Komodo Dragon
Cloudjumper
Spoiler: click to toggle Owl + Great Dane + Bat + X-Wing Starfighter
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puxlit
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17 Jul 2014, 01:46
Post #9
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Better in Silhouette Form
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- MartianArchaeologist
- 16 Jul 2014, 02:29
[...] Especially since many of Chris Sanders' storyboards have Toothless looking like a bunny. [...] I think Chris has a penchant for cute creatures with large heads. Cases in point: Ogo (of Kiskaloo) and Stitch. Besides, characters in storyboards generally differ from their final design. After all, blocking is more important than a faithful character sketch, and most storyboards are drafted prior to character finalisation.
Sure, we know they referenced real-world animals when designing Toothless's appearance, behaviours, and vocalisations; I don't think anybody here disputes this point. What's up for speculative discussion is how tightly coupled Toothless's mannerisms are to his key animal references. As MartianArchaeologist pointed out, Toothless exhibits a variety of animalistic traits in the second film, from avian to canine. In fact, he's downright anthropomorphic in scenes where he emotes irritation, distress, or pride.
To me, this suggests it's more a matter of what the shot/scene/sequence requires, and less about key animal references. If the story calls for him to mimic Stormfly, he'll act like a bird. If the story calls for him to show loyalty or playfulness, he'll act like a dog. If the story calls for him to demonstrate curiosity or be reserved, he'll act like a cat. If this is the case, then how Toothless behaves in the third film will depend on what story Dean wishes to tell.
Spoiler: click to toggle If the story requires Hiccup and Toothless to grow apart, then perhaps a reversion to feline mannerisms would work well. However, if the story requires them to sacrifice their relationship when events come to a head, the most potent build-up would involve reminding us just how close together Hiccup and Toothless have grown.
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Zer0x
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18 Jul 2014, 10:06
Post #10
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[b]Banhammerdragon [/b]
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Moved to the Post-Movie Discussion Sub-Forum.
I think he wil show more of an anthropomorphic behaviour in the future. The longer he lives toether with Hiccup and the other vikings the more he wil align his livestyle with the one of humans an oose more and more of his "inner Fury".
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UNAMUSED
No, I'm serious....stop it..
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