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Is Toothless Evil?
Topic Started: 20 Dec 2015, 14:12 (36274 Views)
Demonwolf002
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Lone Dragon

So I've been meaning to share this theory for awhile now, and now that I've got the chance what better time than the holidays. :P So is Toothless evil well I'm sure we'd all say (myself included) no in a heart beat. But it would be no fun if we didn't consider an insane theory like this once in awhile right? ;)

To start off I need to tell you the basis this theory comes from. That being, according to superstition black animals are (or were) seen as the absolute of their species the alpha if you will, but a black dragon is not only thought to be the top of it's species it's also thought to be the most evil as well. This is the basis for where the theory originated and as I go over the major plot points of the first two movies from that angle keep this in mind.

Now then every evil villain needs a plan or evil goal they're trying to achieve. So what is Toothless's plan? Well he wants to become king of the dragons and destroy all humans.(I'll let you decide where you've heard that before ;) ) Unfortunately for Toothless taking on a Bewilderbeast with that nasty ability they have to control dragons would be far from easy, so currently he is a little stuck. That is until he comes across another dragon with a similar yet weaker ability. This one though seems to be much lazier then it's possible brothers. Only wanting to use that control to eat more and more. So Toothless's plan begins here to first take out the red death, by helping it's raiding parties gather more food. That way it grows ever fatter and lazier until a point where despite it's size and power it just wont be able to keep up with him, and he can defeat it. Why you might ask well because with it defeated the dragons under it's control would be more willing to follow him. Now if you haven't noticed this plan is not a quick one it will take some time. But dragons live for far longer than you or I so patience isn't a virtue for them it's just a way of life. To set a time line though we know Berk has been raided for quite some time. We also know Berk has known of Nightfurys for well before Hiccup was born as well. So with that in mind I'd say he's been doing this for quite a few years at least. (20 perhaps? Possibly a little longer, but do keep in mind he is still a young dragon.)

With Toothless's plan set in motion we fast forward in time to fifteen years after Hiccups birth. To where we see Hiccup shoot down Toothless. Unfortunately for Toothless plans aren't always perfectly executed. And so we come to our first plot point why didn't Toothless kill Hiccup. Well it's not that he didn't want to I assure you but being tied up as he was he couldn't. So seeing this human boy was about to kill him he relented to death, but then the boy did something foolish, he freed him. Now at that time why not kill him you might ask. Well dragons are nothing if not prideful, and owing a human his life just wouldn't do so he didn't kill him even though he could have, a life for a life. From there we all know Toothless's ability to fly was hampered to say the least. So we move forward and see Hiccup go to see Toothless again. Now Toothless is most certainly not happy he lost his ability to fly thanks to this human, but he sees his curiosity and starts to think. Maybe he can no longer kill the dragon(referring to the Red death here) himself but perhaps he can befriend this human, and use that to befriend the other humans, and get them to try and kill the Red Death themselves. At best both the humans and the Red Death kill each other at worst they fail, but many of the humans would be gone and the Red Death possibly wounded so win win for Toothless.

So Toothless allows Hiccup to befriend him. Things are going well Toothless has put up a nice act and the human has been useful, and then he does something interesting. He makes something that gives Toothless back his ability to fly. Well he immediately has to try and so he takes off if this works then there would be no need to keep up this charade. To his dismay it would seem he needs this human in order to be able to fly properly. Unfortunate but now he can at least still take out the Red Death himself again which is what he'll need in order to earn the other dragons trust and loyalty. So this is all the more helpful to him. So they learn to fly together and do quite well at it to. Eventually getting to a point where Toothless is comfortable in thinking they would be ready to take on the Red Death. But how to get the Red Death out of that mountain. In Toothless's current condition he wouldn't put up much of a fight in a cramped space. So he needs to show this human whats out there maybe get him to go tell the others. Then maybe they can free the Red Death.

So fast forward again and where at the point where Toothless saves Hiccup in the kill ring. Why save him? Well at this point it's because he needs him in order to fly, but also because he needs to show the humans the Red Deaths location so they can free it. A risk considering how the humans kill dragons on sight, but a calculated one. And not really all that much needs to be explained motivation wise here I feel since we know what happened, and everything I went over previously covers the fight scene with the Red Death nicely enough.


The Second Movie
So we fast forward through time again, it's been another five years, and during that time Toothless and this human have grown stronger together. And Toothless has earned a lot of goodwill and faith from the dragons he rescued. Not enough to make him a leader or a king but he has their trust as well as the humans trust which is good. Since he thinks they should be able and ready to now take on one of the Bewilderbeasts currently calling itself an alpha. Unbeknownst to Toothless though it would seem others also have plans for the alphas, plans that will coincide with his own very well.

Our first plot point to cover is Toothless and Hiccups run in with Valka and Cloud Jumper. Unexpected to be sure considering it puts Toothless face to face with the very thing hes been after from the beginning the Bewilderbeast. But also his meeting with Valka and Cloud Jumper was a tad bit humbling if not a small hit to his pride to. Since they were bested so easily, it may not be as simple as Toothless thought in taking down this particular alpha dragon. Once again though there is another out there with plans to, and they work quite well to Toothless's advantage.

And so enters Drago with the other Bewilderbeast. Seems humans are pretty good at helping in their own destruction aren't they. ;) And so a fight ensues and one Bewilderbeast kills another, and it would seem Toothless was born under a lucky star. Since it was the weaker of the two, and even better the other dragon rider wasn't on this ones side. And so now we come to it something I'm sure you've been wondering. Why kill Stoick? Well Toothless has learned a lot form his time with the humans. One thing was that the human boy he befriended was next in line to rule these people. Which would be very helpful to Toothless since there is no way this boy would ever harm him. The problem is his father, he would need to be gotten rid of.

Then the best possible thing that could have happened as far as plans go happens. Drago tells the Bewilderbeast to control Toothless to kill Hiccup. Truth be told Toothless isn't really affected by the control, but he's acted for so long now he's gotten quite good at it. He also knows the father would never allow harm to come to the boy. So Toothless acts like he's under the control and gets ready to kill Hiccup. With the intention of waiting for the moment when his father saves the boy to kill him instead. And it happens just as thought now with the most troublesome Bewilderbeast dead and the father out of the way. The only thing to do is play along until the right moment.

That right moment comes back on Berk when Hiccup shows up and tries to break what he thinks is the Bewilderbeast's control over Toothless. Except it never had any control over him so it's simple enough to play the part of coming out of it. From there everything happens as needed Toothless unleashes his full power and defeats the Bewilderbeast, and is crowned the new alpha over the dragons. And this boy is made leader over the humans. What happens next though? Well I don't know to be honest, we'll just have to wait and see how things play out before I can finish.


So that's the end a bit of a read, but worth it I feel. Now I don't think for one second Dreamworks will actually be doing something like this but I would laugh my but off if they did, and would be quite impressed as well to be honest. I mean all I have to do is just describe the different motivations behind everything so far and everything can still play out the same way. With that said I'm never one to look over something cause I feel the writer or author wouldn't do it, since you never really know what they might be thinking. But what do you think so far. Great, terrible, crazy, fun, or do you have anything to add to it. Maybe you have something that puts the whole theory to bed, that you think I just will not be able to explain. Let me know I'm curious to hear it.
See you in the skies Dragon Rider!

The Dragon Root:Thing what I wrote.

Is Toothless Evil? :Me possibly being crazy, but fun.

The BerkCast The HTTYD podcast, you should listen.
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Crystallion12
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Dunno what to say here.....

Wow... This sure is interesting, but I'm not going for it.

Awesome idea, and actually kinda hilarious in a weird way... But I don't believe our sweet, precious Toothless would be capable of such a thing. At least, not to me. He loves Berk, but undobtedly most importantly, Hiccup WAY too much-

However, I highly doubt he would even hesitate from destroying Berk and the entire archipelago if they killed Hiccup... Also, I'm pretty certain Toothless would search every last inch of the earth to find his rider, do you not think? <3 Also, vice versa. That, now, would be interesting in my eyes... Evil, without-Toothless Hiccup.... It's highly considered, especially in fanfic's, I believe you'll find.

I don't know, I just love Hiccup and Toothless. And I can't see them any other way, to be honest.

But... Still a fun idea, and sure, It may be one that stretches things in my eyes and makes my world turn upside down, but it's still creative. :D

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May the stars watch over you, the dragons roar at the sound of your name, and peace, love and the truth enlighten your heart forever,
May you stay true to your soul, mind and heart. Your choices, opinions and life are solely your own, give only the ones you hold dear to your heart your heart, and all your word. Make the right choices, and tread carefully, and live your life to its very fullest,
Crystallion12.
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Toothless the nightfury
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Deadly Nadder

a fun way of looking at the films but ultimately unrealistic i feel
after all the first film was better due to how simple it was
also adding in this complex plot twist might seem like an after thought and would take alot of convincing to make it seem realistic

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draco
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mystery dragon, pic drawn by night fury fire. Thank you
:)

Interesting theory to think about, but I don't think Its possible.
Dragons, need I say more.

Hiccup, chief of berc, dragon master.
Toothless, alpha dragon.
You and me bud we can do this, as one.
It's just a zipple misunderstanding
I like a pit, but I love a boar pit.
i am hurt,I am very much hurt.
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Gh3ttoKinG.
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[color=red]
[b]Mr. Insane Insanity
[/b]
[/color]

I don't want to destroy the theory, but:
  • Do you mean that it was Toothless's idea to feed the Red Death with as many food as possible to get him fat and slow or do you mean that he uses his lazyness to get him more fat and slow? Because Valkas said he's the same age like Hiccup. So either she means it like Human & Animal years or he is the same age like Hiccup (which I suppose, because the young kids don't think about Human & Animal years). This means that when Valka was captured, Toothless was just a Baby too and apparently the fight between the Red Death's Dragons and the Berkians already started before Toothless was born.
  • Why didn't Toothless flew away and never came back in Gift of the Night Fury? He had the chance, but decided against it. Unless he might have thought that the new tail eventually needs to be maintained some day and came back. maybe because Toothless grew on Hiccup (or is it the otherway around? Bad english knowing at this), but that we would actually turn a bit good. A he still could have kept it so he could fly away whenever he wants and wouldn't have to trust a human.
  • As we can see in the second movie, Toothless is effected by the Bewilderbeasts control. Only on a viking perspective the theory is possible. Don't know from which perspective your theory relies on
  • (Now I include the series, which you could leave out since Dean DeBlois didn't write it's story) In the second last of Season 2, Dagur frightened to kill Stoick if anyone would make a move. There would have been a chance to get rid of Stoick in a "accidental" way. Why not doing it back then? Only reason I can imagine is that it's to risky, that Hiccup might would abandoned him.

    One point is missing I wanted to write... But I can't remember it xD

    But this is a good, nice theory (not that I like that theory ;) ).
    I think you can reason (almost) all above points, like I already did a bit.
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Demonwolf002
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Lone Dragon

I do agree with everyone the theory/idea is more or less not likely, nor do I think Dreamworks will actually do anything like this, but doesn't mean we shouldn't think about it or have fun with the idea. ^_^
Crystallion12
 
However, I highly doubt he would even hesitate from destroying Berk and the entire archipelago if they killed Hiccup... Also, I'm pretty certain Toothless would search every last inch of the earth to find his rider, do you not think? <3 Also, vice versa. That, now, would be interesting in my eyes... Evil, without-Toothless Hiccup.... It's highly considered, especially in fanfic's, I believe you'll find.
I have read a few fanfics that delve into the idea, but nothing on this scale. They also don't go into it in the way I've described it, for good reason mind.

Gh3ttoKinG.
 
I don't want to destroy the theory, but:
Do you mean that it was Toothless's idea to feed the Red Death with as many food as possible to get him fat and slow or do you mean that he uses his lazyness to get him more fat and slow? Because Valkas said he's the same age like Hiccup. So either she means it like Human & Animal years or he is the same age like Hiccup (which I suppose, because the young kids don't think about Human & Animal years). This means that when Valka was captured, Toothless was just a Baby too and apparently the fight between the Red Death's Dragons and the Berkians already started before Toothless was born.
Why didn't Toothless flew away and never came back in Gift of the Night Fury? He had the chance, but decided against it. Unless he might have thought that the new tail eventually needs to be maintained some day and came back. maybe because Toothless grew on Hiccup (or is it the otherway around? Bad english knowing at this), but that we would actually turn a bit good. A he still could have kept it so he could fly away whenever he wants and wouldn't have to trust a human.
As we can see in the second movie, Toothless is effected by the Bewilderbeasts control. Only on a viking perspective the theory is possible. Don't know from which perspective your theory relies on
(Now I include the series, which you could leave out since Dean DeBlois didn't write it's story) In the second last of Season 2, Dagur frightened to kill Stoick if anyone would make a move. There would have been a chance to get rid of Stoick in a "accidental" way. Why not doing it back then? Only reason I can imagine is that it's to risky, that Hiccup might would abandoned him.

One point is missing I wanted to write... But I can't remember it xD

But this is a good, nice theory (not that I like that theory ;) ).
I think you can reason (almost) all above points, like I already did a bit.
It does seem like everyone is against the theory/idea. :P ;)

1: Valka only said "He's your age" That can be interpreted one of two ways either literally as Hiccup and Toothless are the same age. Or figuratively, by which I mean compare and look at both human and dragon years they are just both young adults within their own species. Considering the general consensus is dragons can well out live humans in years. I'd say it's safe to say she meant the later not the former. With that said I might be a little biased since one way does defeat the purpose of the theory to some degree. :P

2: Now Gift of the NightFury I didn't go over since the post was already fairly long, but I do have a way to explain Toothless coming back. That doesn't need him to grow fond of Hiccup or need him to slowly become good. So what did we see? We saw Toothless leave and come back with Hiccups helmet now we assume that's all he went and did, looked for Hiccups helmet. What if that was an after thought though something he did to cover up why he really left which was to go and find one of the Bewilderbeasts and scout them out. Unfortunately we can't say for certain what he found, but since he came back I would say it is safe to assume he did find one of the Bewilderbeasts, and did notice just how many dragons the one he found commanded. KNowing this and the difference in power unfortunately meant he still needed more time to become stronger, and he still needed the humans and Hiccup for help as well so he came back defeated but only for the time being.

3: What we see is what we want to see. There is nothing there that proves Toothless is affected by the Bewilderbeast's control. There is no certain perspective needed to make the theory work, since the only perspective that would matter would be Toothless's. We're never show the inner workings of his thoughts so we assume it does affect him it could easily just be him playing the part of subservience to achieve his own goals. Which worked out quite well for him didn't it?

4: The show is a bit harder to nail down at times, but really it all just comes down to time. Toothless could have killed Stoick then but it wasn't the right time, and to achieve a goal like his which remember is him becoming the king or alpha of all dragons, and the destruction of the humans takes time. Remember the Bewilderbeasts are old dragons they've been around for a long time defeating one isn't going to happen in a flash. So Toothless will have to be patient, but as I said patience is just a way of life for a species that can live for many centuries if not thousands of years.

With that said that doesn't mean that the show is unimportant and has no important plot points to be built upon or explained. I just may have been a little lazy in that regard, and my excuse is the post was already kind of long. :P
Though if there are any plot points that happened in the show that you or anyone else think might disprove the theory. Go ahead and share them I'd be happy and glad to try and explain them following the original theory/idea and trying to make them work within the story we have thus far and not be to out of place.
See you in the skies Dragon Rider!

The Dragon Root:Thing what I wrote.

Is Toothless Evil? :Me possibly being crazy, but fun.

The BerkCast The HTTYD podcast, you should listen.
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